Yes the RED is very important

Oh and it has NEVER seen a garaged day in its life. Sits out under a cover when I am not driving it. The salt air is just killing it as you can see in the pictures. Corrosion all over

I am still not sure what a track showing means ? That go back to experience of driving on a road course and not the performance of a car as much. And as for the dyno....why ? Now there is a waste of money that could be spent on improving performance. IMO

Jan consider why with both our backgrounds why we are playing with a toy?
Minis are suppose to be fun! Half of the performance cars I (presume you)have owned are in the upper limits of insane performance levels and it seems we keep butting heads on a toy?


hemiheaded18 you do not think the cheap shot I feel was directed at me about the BB from the moderator?

 

well i run an almost stock ( engine wise ) cooper 2003 with an msd. i dont know if it helps but it looked cool and sure didnt hurt anything on mine

 

Nitro just lighten up.

 

Seems my comment about Big Blocks is taken out of context.

I shall explain

As stated MSD makes some fine stuff, my issue with the G2X from Racepack, which MSD bought notwithstanding. Anyway, the Big Block comment was in imply that MSD has a wonderful history of creating great stuff for Big Blocks. Thats was intention with the comment, not pointed at anyone but more at where MSD strengths lay.

Any company with a wide range of products is bound to have 1 or 2 that just don't cut it. For MSD it's the coilpack we use on MINI's that is really marketed by MSD for another engine.

 

I am not familiar with the G2x. Its not a MSD coil as this thread is about.
It may interest you to know that a small block and big block GM use the same ignition parts. LOL And most of MSD products are not model specific. Their products were developed for improvements in ignition components not specifically for model Vehicles. The MSD coil listed for use on the MINI is a universal 4 terminal coil. FYI the minis OEM coil can be used on Mitsubishis, Neon’s, and other 4 terminal coils applications as is theirs can be used on a mini. I have tried to point out that it is not the total voltage that is an advertises hyp but the resistance and raise time that make one coil an improvement over another. Please check this out with a little independent research.

Silversmoke06 I just continually see that products used by many in a worldwide market with no problems get introduced from a few here on NAM as having issues? When most are investigated leads to suspect other problems non related to those condemned products. In this case the corrosion issue postings.
And it gets old to see that the end responses by a couple who many view as informative individuals in the mini performance comunity is a call out to go to a DYNO or track? Which in this case does not resolve the question of the performance level of the MSD coil. It takes a simple volt/ohm gauge and an oscilloscope to read the output of any coil?

 

Isn't the MSD marketed as a performance improvement? Therefore, shouldn't we be able to dyno the car or track at and see the gains? And isn't a dyno or a track going to see the upper reaches of the RPM band where the MSD will outperform the OEM coil?

 

All I can say is WOW !

 

what wow because he made a valid pont causing you to eat your words?
Hmm how is that not wow.
Thats not really a wow. Sucks to be proved wrong by a pair of 18 yr olds dont it?
and if you think you can prove that the msd is better by testing it with a meter thats like saying your gonna gain 50 hp if you put in larger injectors....
Umm yeah. Im done. I would post a fail picture but im sure ive been pretty clear. I leave that to hemi.

 

The wow was for ignorance ! From both of you. Done with this thread.

Thanks for the spelling check. "In forums when an debate starts to fall the spelling/grammar corrections takes it place"

 

Actually, it's spelled "ignorance".

 

cool.

 

It's the sum of the parts gentleman. Sorry but Nitro is making some very valid points but it seems no one is listing.

In the Hi Fi world cable are argued about all the time. People think $1000 for a pair of interconnect cables for their 2 channel system is crazy.

On a scope cheap interconnect VS Hi End ones' show no difference at all. Sit down and do some blind listening testing between cables and even a novice will pick out the better sounding cable. Which is almost always the Hi End one.

I have a miss around 6800 and "I" have an MSD. I first starting researching ignitions and have decided to change the plugs and try that first before laying blam on the MSD.

I changed to Brisk Silver Racing plugs. If this doesnt fix the problem I will then try the stock coil. In other words figure it out step by step and then and only them can blame be pointed.

Longboard

 

Thanks for the correction. Corrected.

 

I am quite familiar with the sum of the parts theory. Doesn't everyone use high quality US made Audio cables, if no they should...

But anyway.

I really think the point of issue with the MSD is the corrosion factor. Even folks that live where rust and corrosion for normal weather patterns is not a factor as seeing this issue. Some generalities were proffered about how to fix but I've yet to see anyone offer a step by step do this program to alleviate the issue. So tell me why I should go buy one of these that will need to replaced every 6 months when the OEM one works fine for my application and lasts years.

 

You may try looking at the coil at night in a dark shop/garage to see if you are getting cross firing caused by the boot ends at the coil leaking current. There is also a nice tool that you can get that is very cheap that will measure if the wires are leaking current. Or you can do the brave act and just grab on the coil while the engine is running and see if you get a new hair style.

 

1. Replace or add extra ground connection
2. Make sure that all the plug wire connectors are tight on the coil.
3. Check battery connection to make sure tight and free of any corrosion
4. Get a small Solar-charging panel
5. Battery charging monitor optional

Plug solar charger in when the mini is parked.

No more corrosion

 

I've seen someone perform this test on a Jeep. It could be called the "How high can you jump while screaming as loud as you can" test.

 

Its agreed that its a bad idea.

 

The ground on are cars really does stink. I have seen and experianced problems from bad grounds on many Mini's.

Longboard

 

 

Ok, lets move this thread into more of a positive discussion type of direction...

I completely agree that the MSD coil is going to do better on an oscillator. Even if we completely ignore the many people with corrosion problems...
Nitrominis, please explain how this will cause any kind of benefit when the stock one is more than sufficient? What will the benefit ACTUALLY be in real world application? How will the MSD coil enhance the way the fuel ignites if the stock one is more than capable of igniting all of the fuel efficiently?

In relation to audio equipment, I think it is like replacing the stock amp with a much more powerful one when the stock amp already exceeds what the speakers can handle (obviously ignoring the fact that speakers can blow). If you run the speakers at max, it will be the same with both amps.
You are getting a stronger coil, but the coil will only perform like the stock one, because there is no more room for improvement with our ignition systems in relation to how much fuel needs to be ignited.

 

keeping positive thoughts

 

Changing amps either with more power or less can make a huge difference in sound quality. It's not all about power when it's good sound your looking for.

OK, back to cars.

Longboard

 

AliceCooperWA I don't know how to summarize this question ?

Basically when you look at a coils performance on a scope you watch the voltage wave. At idle it takes very little voltage to fire the coil and the raise time is not as critical. However as the different demands on coil output are increase the raise time is essential to continually supply a fast high voltage spark to the plugs. A demand can be any condition that changes the ignition/ combustion cycle. A/F ratio, timing, air temperature, engine temperature etc can all have an effect of the coils out put. This can only be seen on an oscilloscope. Not a Dyno. So in an example if your demand at 1dle on the coils output are 12k volts it may be 20k or more at 6k depending on the entire variable demands. Unfortunately unless you are using a variable magnetic coil which would compensate for individual cylinders the voltage demand is equal to all cylinders. And that depletes the available voltage rather quickly. As is the case with OEM coils which are NOT designed for high demand operation. That is not to say that they will not work well at upper RPM levels just not great. Now as the demand increases on the voltage it is also necessary to have a coil that has a low ohms resistance and a high turns ratio to be able to recover between each cylinder demand for a spark. Or rise time. Again OEM are not designed and built with a high turn’s ration. MSD is 77:1 Perfect would be 100:1. I am not sure if anyone has a coil like that yet? I also do not know exactly the BMW/MINI ratio is but I have never seen any with more then 60:1 as an OEM unit yet. So MSD by it design it is built with high engine demands and will supply a plug with the needed voltage on higher demands then an OEM coil can.
What this means is a coil with a faster rise time good available voltage will give a longer duration and more consistent spark.
This is the shortest way I can explain the Coil operation in relation to the high demands.

 

This is very true, but I meant it as a direct comparison to the coil. I totally agree that better cables will sound clearer with less interference and a better amp will sound better, but with all else equal, more power would not accomplish anything at all. But say your speakers can handle a total of 200 watts max and your stock amp is capable of putting 400 watts rms. What benefit would you get by adding 100 watts to that amp?

This is my point about the MSD coil. I understand that when BMW chose their oem coil, they did not choose one for extreme power situations. But when it comes to a stock or even highly modded MC, I don't think anyone would call it a high power situation. I don't think our engines are capable of placing enough demand on the stock coil to warrant changing it. I don't think that my 1.6 L NA engine can put enough of a demand on the MSD coil for it to effect anything. I don't think that my engine is capable of using enough fuel that a longer duration spark will effect anything. On a highly modded MCS putting out 300 hp or more, that is a very different situation and I will leave that to others to argue about.

Ok, I'm done ranting