My dyno sheet, before 3 hours :D

 

The funny is, the first run which gave 127 Ηp is almost identical to the Superchips stock graph! http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/minicooper.pdf
The dyno was done in 4rth gear, and with hood open. The told me they can't dyno with hood closed because the air fun is small, ad can simulate a speed af aprox. 120kmh... While the speed on the rev limit of 4rth gear, is about 180-190kmh!
We dyoned in total 14 cars, and they all got realistic results.

 

Hood open = at least +8 to 10hp on top of what the result would be !
Look at the part of this thread were I showed the Cooper S runs with the hood open, I guess a 190hp stock Cooper S is normal ...

I'm not going to get into this again.
If you want to believe that you have 132hp with a panel filter and some spark plugs, go right ahead.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

Read above why they want the hood open. And second, it wasn't a big fan throwing air all over the front of the car, but a portable one, low in height, throwing air mainly on the bumper.
After that, another 13 cars dynoed with hood opened, and all results were realistic.
Two 318Cis Valvetronic with Superchips reflash, back box and air filter dynoed at 153hp. (stock 143hp)
A BMW 325ti stock dynoed at 194 hp flywheel. (BMW claims 192)
A 330Ci with UUC flywheel, Schrick cams, BMW Performance induction, lightweight pulleys and FULL Supersprint exhaust, plus Hiop Racetech software, showed 261 hp flywheel.
A Z3 3.0i with the same as above but only a K&N panel filter, and without flywheel showed 253 hp flywheel.
All dynoed with hoods opened.
What do you think now?

 

I don't know what the effect is on those cars because I haven't tested them.
What I do know is, that with the hood open, Mini's dyno a lot higher.
In fact, they dyno so high that it's just unrealistic.

Do you really think that you have 132hp with a panel filter and spark plugs ?
Really ???
Talk about being gullible.

Check this out :
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...8&postcount=66

What do you think now ?

If that tuning shop you went to doesn't even have a good blower, then I know enough.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

I am not going to argue with you, i am telling you, another 13 cars were dynoed along with me and i told you the results, all under the same conditions. That's it.

 

Well that's one thing we agree on, because I don't want to get into this again.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

What did I tell you about arguing with everybody.... You DO know that BMW/MINI underrates the output of the motor, right? And every dyno shop will dyno a motor with the hood open...they want the best possible setup for airflow..

 

Ok, one last time ...

What can I say, I like facts and reality.
If I were interested in fantasy, I probably wouldn't have bothered starting this thread.

BMW underrates their cars ?
Well, I'm sorry, but in most cases that isn't so.
In some cases (ex. 335i) they do underrate them, but the majority of their cars produce more or less what they are suppose to have (been a member of the BMW community for a long time now so I know what most cars dyno, but I haven't tested them myself).
In +90% of the BMW dyno runs that I have seen with my own eyes or that I have read about, the cars were close to the output they were suppose to have, only a minority did better (and those were often cars that were known to dyno higher).

Do you really think that BMW underrated these cars ?
That's a fantasy that just ain't gonna happen.
A dyno might say that person X has 132hp and over 160Nm (which is another factor that shows how far off these numbers are for a car with those two "mods") with just a panel filter and other spark plugs, but that sure as hell ain't gonna be the power he has in reality.

When you're talking about a Cooper S, everything changes, that can be very possible because many of those have been known to dyno 3,4,5hp higher than stock.
But the Cooper non S.
Forget it.

Euhm ... wrong again, 9 out of 10 dyno shops in Europe, Asia will dyno with the hood closed.
The sollution is using a BIG blower to simulate the real life airstream.
When you open the hood, you cheat because you create a situation that is too positive and that cannot be reproduced in reality.
How you ask ?
Because when you open the hood, there is 0% hot air that circulates inside the engine room.
This is not possible when you're on the road.
Ask yourself one question, do you drive with your hood open ?

Some cars respond better to this than others.
I've seen cars dyno the same with the hood open and with the hood closed.
But on the Mini's, the effect is pretty big.
Just look at our results with that Cooper S that we tested.

However, I do know that in the States it is very popular to dyno a car with the hood open.
But like I have PROVEN before, when you dyno a Mini with the hood open, you get unrealistic numbers.
Again, here's a link to one of my posts with PROOF : https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/for...8&postcount=66
This is what we tested.
We laughed that result away because we knew that the car would never produce these numbers on the road with the hood closed.

So let's put A and B together.
Proof that a Mini produces more power with the hood open (see results with the Cooper S) and a Mini Cooper non S producing 132hp on a dyno with the hood open, with just a panel filter and other spark plugs.
You have to be blind not to see.
Again, believe what you want.

Tell you what, post those results on several European Mini forums to see how people are going to react.

I knew that by starting this thread some people were not going to accept reality because they have a dyno sheet that says that their car has a lot more power.
Many people have been in that situation, some woke up, others didn't.

Here's another result of a group of German owners who did a dyno day.
There was one Cooper owner.
His car only had MTH software, nothing else.
He produced 120,6hp at the flywheel.
Link : http://www.newmini-technik.de/images...dyno-liste.pdf

So far, in this thread, 26 realistic results have been shown, one in between and 2 unrealistic results (a total of 29).

Believe what you want.

Der Abt

 

During one of my dyno runs I pulled a 197km/h in 4th gear @ 7200rpm

 

Der Abt...I appreciate the refresher course on airflow dynamics and I understand the "real world" HP numbers that your talking about but when a car is on the dyno..about 99.9% of the population wants the best BHP # that the motor makes period. I'm not trying to dispute what a Cooper makes...its futile. We arent talking 900+ Peugot's, Subie's or Saabs. Maybe some HP is getting lost in the Belgium -> USA translation....

 

........

 

But sometimes getting that best BHP result means breaking rules.
And that leads to unrealistic results.

Well, it's what is seen in most places in Europe, ... and even in some dyno shops in the US.

It's a discussion that can keep continuing without an end.

The purpose of this thread is simple, expect realistic results.
And in the end, everyone believes what they want.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

When I drive the Mini I believe I have a 1100HP twin turbo Supra motor in it... Maybe I should do this to the BMW...

 

A car can have that effect

 

Nah, just send an e-mail to one of these tuners :

http://www.activeautowerke.com/
http://m3turbo.com/
http://www.icsperformance.com/

They can get you to 1000hp with your BMW engine !

 

Im already familiar with all those guys....I just want something different. Here's what I got....old old pic when the Mini was stock...

 

Well, wanting something different isn't going to be easy because everything has been done.
Supercharged, turbocharged, built engine, engine conversions with all types of engines, you name it.

I've only modded my Mini, the others stay bone stock.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

Besides Bluefin from Superchips, there's also another brand that offers the same package, but these guys promise the real results.
It's an Italian brand called Minipowerprog.
They ask 250 euro for non European orders.

Link : http://www.minipowerprog.com/en/home.html

They promise to take the Cooper from 115 to 122hp.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

One last thing I would like to point out, look at all the dyno sheets of those modified Coopers that I posted on the first two pages.
Look at all their mods.
Look at the stock ones.
Now look at your car with those two very basic mods (good for maybe 2hp).
If that doesn't ring a bell ... well there's nothing left to say really.

It's a myth that stock Coopers produce 120/125/130hp.
And it's also a myth that you're going to gain 5/10hp with just spark plugs and a panel filter.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

Another result

Car : Mini Cooper
Mods : software, carbon intake, eisenmann exhaust
HP : 122 (DIN correction), 123 (no correction factor)
Torque : 155 Nm
WHP : 106,1 (DIN correction), 107 (no correction factor)

 

Another example of a realistic result :

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/arc...inicooper.html

Quote from their results :

... we made 109 bhp (@ 6000 rpm) and 103.7 lb.-ft.. (@ 4800 rpm) of torque in the same 100 degree heat. As our car is rated at 115 bhp @ 6000 rpm at the flywheel and 110 lb.-ft. @ 4500 rpm of torque ...

Another quote :

On our next dyno run with the intake and exhaust installed we went from 109 to 112 bhp. Maximum torque went from 103.7 to 104.5 lb.-ft. What was interesting is that while peak torque and hp received only modest gains (let's face it, most manufacturers, especially the BMW guys behind the new MINI, are pretty good at getting the most out of today's cars) at about 5000 rpm we had real seat of the pants improvements. The dyno graphs showed that at 5100 rpm horsepower was up from 96.4 to 99.7 and torque jumped from 99.3 to 102.7lb.-ft.
The new Mini Mania airbox plus the exhaust were worth 3 horsepower on a chassis dyno. The MINI is well-optimized out of the box.

And like I said, the Cooper S versions are the ones that are underrated.
This is also something these people noticed.

Quote :

We watched as a new supercharged MINI Cooper S made 155 horsepower at the wheels in the nearly 100 degree heat. These cars are rated at 163 bhp at the flywheel. Interesting... either the new MINI is the first car ever to have virtually no driveline loss (typical loss is 15-17 percent) or BMW is underrating the new MINI from the factory.

Keep in mind that when they talk about the Mini being underrated, they are talking about the results of the Cooper S version.

Kind regards

Der Abt

 

Man what are you trying to prove here? I have seen loads of dynos of stock Mini Coopers above 120 hp flywheel, and that is with no mods at all. The smallest is 120 hp, and the best 124. And these figures are stock everything, with 1000km on the engine, which plays a big role, but you don't mention that.
Once again, Mr.I Know Everything, i am going to show you this :
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/minicooper.pdf
and this:
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/coopers.pdf
You think they overrate the non S Cooper and not the S??????
They know much better than you believe me, and they have dynoed cars for the last 20 years.

 

You know what's funny, how you believe everything a tuner claims.
MTH also claims 130hp, and guess what, not one owner was able to dyno higher than 122hp here in Europe.

I have told you 100 times now that many tuning shops don't dyno correctly.
There are plenty of people with dyno results showing numbers that are far from the truth.
Not using the right correction numbers, hood open, ... = unrealistic results.

K&N claims 5hp or even 10hp with some of their intakes.
Do you believe that as well ?

If you believe everything a company tells you, it's easy to get a Cooper to 175hp.
Just get a Superchips file (131hp), add a K&N intake (141hp), add an exhaust and you've got 146hp.
Then add headers, sport cat. and cams and voila, 170hp.
Too bad reality shows different results !

Stock Coopers don't dyno at 120hp/125hp, told you before that that's a myth.

 

The Cooper S is a very different car.
The engine block is the same, but many parts are different, not to mention the fact that the entire setup is not comparable because of the supercharger, intercooler, throttle body, different exhaust, gearbox, other engine parts ...

This leads to very different results.