MINI Cooper non-S and MINI One dyno sheets
#51
02-11-2008, 03:38 AM
I meant exactly the opposite. The EU version should give some pore power than the US. US always gives a little less power than the EU due to the exhaust, and maybe software. (Like the BMWs)
#52
02-11-2008, 03:41 AM
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#53
02-11-2008, 03:43 AM
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Also, the perfect example of those tuners I was talking about, is MTH.
There are several dyno sheets that I added from people who had MTH software.
MTH claims 130hp.
But nobody was able to dyno higher than 122hp.
Perfect example.
Here's the screenshot of that pdf file that I posted:
Kind regards
Der Abt
There are several dyno sheets that I added from people who had MTH software.
MTH claims 130hp.
But nobody was able to dyno higher than 122hp.
Perfect example.
Here's the screenshot of that pdf file that I posted:
Kind regards
Der Abt
Last edited by Der Abt; 12-13-2011 at 12:24 PM.
#54
02-11-2008, 06:32 AM
#57
02-14-2008, 02:35 AM
#58
02-14-2008, 02:45 AM
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Seen about +30 Mini's dyno so far and not once did I see one dyno more than 116hp.
I know about 1 case of a Dutch owner who produced 118hp stock but he was the only one and his results were questionable.
By the way, my Mini weighs about 1075kg including the 17inch wheels.
Stock, they will not accelerate to 100km/h (62mph) in 9.2sec.
But with mods, this is very possible.
I once hit 62mph in 8.4sec on a Maha dyno.
Of course, I know that this is on a dyno, but just to give you an idea.
Kind regards
Der Abt
#59
02-14-2008, 04:14 AM
I have seen two dynos of a Mini Cooper in Greek automotive magazines which dyno the cars when testing them. One was 124 hp and the other was 121 hp, flywheel ofcourse. Liars as well? Who knows 
Also the measured 0-100kmh time in 9.3 secs with vbox. Liars again??
Also the measured 0-100kmh time in 9.3 secs with vbox. Liars again??
Last edited by nickbmw; 02-14-2008 at 04:19 AM.
#60
02-14-2008, 04:38 AM
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Ah yes, magazines.
Ever heard of magazine racing ?
To be honest, I don't care what a magazine claims.
I care about reality.
I have seen +30 Mini's dyno with my own eyes.
I prefer to believe what I see myself instead of believing some magazine.
Many magazines also claimed good things about certain tuners.
And afterwards, those same tuners got a bad reputation for not delivering the power they promised.
See what I mean.
Certain magazines also claimed that the E46 M3 did the 1/4 mile in 13.5s, yet many owners have achieved 13.2/13.3s in the 1/4 mile.
See what I mean about magazine racing ?
I prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes thank you very much.
Kind regards
Der Abt
Ever heard of magazine racing ?
To be honest, I don't care what a magazine claims.
I care about reality.
I have seen +30 Mini's dyno with my own eyes.
I prefer to believe what I see myself instead of believing some magazine.
Many magazines also claimed good things about certain tuners.
And afterwards, those same tuners got a bad reputation for not delivering the power they promised.
See what I mean.
Certain magazines also claimed that the E46 M3 did the 1/4 mile in 13.5s, yet many owners have achieved 13.2/13.3s in the 1/4 mile.
See what I mean about magazine racing ?
I prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes thank you very much.
Kind regards
Der Abt
Last edited by Der Abt; 01-22-2012 at 09:32 AM.
#62
02-14-2008, 04:46 AM
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The fastest time I ever saw, that a stock Cooper recorderd was about 9.4sec from 0-100km/h (0-62mph).
A 0-62mph in 9.4s means you reach 60mph in almost 9sec flat.
Once the car is modded, reaching 8s times from 0-60mph is very possible.
So, what the hell was your point ?
I never claimed it couldn't be done, I just said that it was very difficult to get to 62mph in 9.2 as BMW claims.
Kind regards
Der Abt
A 0-62mph in 9.4s means you reach 60mph in almost 9sec flat.
Once the car is modded, reaching 8s times from 0-60mph is very possible.
So, what the hell was your point ?
I never claimed it couldn't be done, I just said that it was very difficult to get to 62mph in 9.2 as BMW claims.
Kind regards
Der Abt
#63
02-14-2008, 05:27 AM
the hood closed for dyno will lower your results compared to real world driving.
The truth is probably somewhere between the two, but probably
closer to the hood open scenario.
#64
02-14-2008, 05:36 AM
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#65
02-14-2008, 05:42 AM
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The last Cooper we tested this principle on was a stock Cooper S.
The dyno shop we went to had a Superflow dyno and two good and big blowers.
With the hood closed, the stock Cooper S produced 174hp at the flywheel.
With the hood open it produced 186hp at the flywheel.
The car is rated at 170hp stock at the flywheel.
Which result is more realistic according to you ?
Kind regards
Der Abt
The dyno shop we went to had a Superflow dyno and two good and big blowers.
With the hood closed, the stock Cooper S produced 174hp at the flywheel.
With the hood open it produced 186hp at the flywheel.
The car is rated at 170hp stock at the flywheel.
Which result is more realistic according to you ?
Kind regards
Der Abt
#66
02-14-2008, 07:10 AM
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Here are his dyno sheets.
And I was wrong, with the hood open his car produced 189hp.
The guys of the Mini club who were present, including the dyno operator laughed at that result, knowing it's nowhere near reality.
To go even further, when they sprayed nitrous on the intercooler (to help it cool off quicker), the car even pulled a 194hp with the hood open.
Does that mean he went home thinking he has a stock 194hp Cooper S ?
Hell no.
All this happened to see how far off the numbers would be with the hood open.
And there you go.
His 189hp run with the hood open:
His 194hp run with the hood open and very cool intercooler:
The point of all of this ?
Showing people that going on a dyno with the hood open is not the way to go.
Sure it's all in good fun to watch your car produce amazing (yet unrealistic) numbers.
But in the end, you know what the real deal is.
The answer to create a realistic stream of cold air is simple.
Make sure you have good and big blowers to simulate the airstream.
Kind regards
Der Abt
And I was wrong, with the hood open his car produced 189hp.
The guys of the Mini club who were present, including the dyno operator laughed at that result, knowing it's nowhere near reality.
To go even further, when they sprayed nitrous on the intercooler (to help it cool off quicker), the car even pulled a 194hp with the hood open.
Does that mean he went home thinking he has a stock 194hp Cooper S ?
Hell no.
All this happened to see how far off the numbers would be with the hood open.
And there you go.
His 189hp run with the hood open:
His 194hp run with the hood open and very cool intercooler:
The point of all of this ?
Showing people that going on a dyno with the hood open is not the way to go.
Sure it's all in good fun to watch your car produce amazing (yet unrealistic) numbers.
But in the end, you know what the real deal is.
The answer to create a realistic stream of cold air is simple.
Make sure you have good and big blowers to simulate the airstream.
Kind regards
Der Abt
Last edited by Der Abt; 02-14-2008 at 07:14 AM.
#67
02-14-2008, 07:21 AM
We all know that different dynos will produce different results and the hood open will affect the hp due to cooler air, but I think what is more important is to go to the same dyno and test the car with the same conditions. I'm not going to go back to the dyno until I make some changes to my car and see the results. Only thing that maybe hard to reduplicate is the weather, hence the need to do before and after results close to each other(go to dyno, install (X) part, go back to dyno). This is also the reason that I got a G-tech pro. Here again, the results may not be exactly like the dyno, but improvement are what were looking for with the same testing conditions.
#68
02-14-2008, 08:02 AM
Let's see, 111 hp at the wheels = about 127 hp at the flywheel (15% loss) or 133hp at the flywheel with a 20 % loss.
That's at least a 10-15hp gain over stock, with just a panel filter and cat-back exhaust.
Possible ?
Decide for yourself.
A panel filter is good for about 1-2hp at the flywheel.
A cat-back exhaust might give you 1-2hp in the best circumstances.
Your other mods don't give extra power to the car.
People with the same mods, but better products (meaning custom exhausts and open intakes with heatshields) have produced about 10hp less than you.
People with the same mods as you, but also with software and headers, have been known to produce 1hp more than you or even 2hp less.
Decide for yourself which result is more realistic.
You produce 105 ft/lbs at the wheels which is about 142Nm at the wheels (these cars have between 145/150Nm stock at the flywheel), which would give you an extremely high torque result at the flywheel for a car with your mods.
Did you dyno with the hood open ?
That's at least a 10-15hp gain over stock, with just a panel filter and cat-back exhaust.
Possible ?
Decide for yourself.
A panel filter is good for about 1-2hp at the flywheel.
A cat-back exhaust might give you 1-2hp in the best circumstances.
Your other mods don't give extra power to the car.
People with the same mods, but better products (meaning custom exhausts and open intakes with heatshields) have produced about 10hp less than you.
People with the same mods as you, but also with software and headers, have been known to produce 1hp more than you or even 2hp less.
Decide for yourself which result is more realistic.
You produce 105 ft/lbs at the wheels which is about 142Nm at the wheels (these cars have between 145/150Nm stock at the flywheel), which would give you an extremely high torque result at the flywheel for a car with your mods.
Did you dyno with the hood open ?
-Addison
#69
02-14-2008, 08:12 AM
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Yes, I was amazed too! We did dyno with the hood open, but I don't see how that would make a difference on non-super or non-turbo car. Every car starts off with a different number. I'm not sure, but maybe I started off higher then most people. I was very pleased with the results.
-Addison
-Addison
For our cars it matters just as much as for a turbo or supercharged car, trust me.
Hot air is a performance killer, maybe even more for a small NA engine like ours.
Since you did a dyno run with the hood open, I wouldn't be surprised that you produced at least 5-10hp more compared to what you would have run.
Look at the dyno sheets of that Cooper S that I showed above.
The increase isn't going to be equal for a non S, but you get the picture that there is an enormous and unrealistic gain that can be made.
Kind regards
Der Abt
#70
02-14-2008, 08:14 AM
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We all know that different dynos will produce different results and the hood open will affect the hp due to cooler air, but I think what is more important is to go to the same dyno and test the car with the same conditions. I'm not going to go back to the dyno until I make some changes to my car and see the results. Only thing that maybe hard to reduplicate is the weather, hence the need to do before and after results close to each other(go to dyno, install (X) part, go back to dyno). This is also the reason that I got a G-tech pro. Here again, the results may not be exactly like the dyno, but improvement are what were looking for with the same testing conditions.
When making changes, using the same dyno makes it easier to keep track of your gains.
But I would still like to suggest to dyno with the hood closed, and make sure your shop has a good blower.
Kind regards
Der Abt
#71
02-14-2008, 08:40 AM
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The principle is very simple.
When you drive your car, wind goes through the grills and there is an airstream that enters the engine compartment.
That stream, that comes from outside, can only be simulated with big blowers.
When you open the hood of the car, the engine stays a lot cooler compared to real life situations because now the airstream that occurs inside the engine compartment is not realistic anymore.
Here in Europe, most tuners dyno with the hood closed and they make sure that they have big blowers.
Only a small percentage over here opens the hood, and most of the time, those are tuners that are known for their way too optimistic numbers.
We know that it's more the American way to dyno with the hood open (not that all tuners in the US do this), but it really shouldn't be done.
A big blower can simulate the outside airstream, but when you dyno with the hood open ... it's cheating really.
Not only do you now have a blower blowing cold air on the car, but at the same time the hood is open and there is no hot air at all.
This is not realistic, because in normal driving conditions, there is always a percentage of hot air circulating inside the engine compartment.
This gives higher (unrealistic) numbers as a result.
Kind regards
Der Abt
When you drive your car, wind goes through the grills and there is an airstream that enters the engine compartment.
That stream, that comes from outside, can only be simulated with big blowers.
When you open the hood of the car, the engine stays a lot cooler compared to real life situations because now the airstream that occurs inside the engine compartment is not realistic anymore.
Here in Europe, most tuners dyno with the hood closed and they make sure that they have big blowers.
Only a small percentage over here opens the hood, and most of the time, those are tuners that are known for their way too optimistic numbers.
We know that it's more the American way to dyno with the hood open (not that all tuners in the US do this), but it really shouldn't be done.
A big blower can simulate the outside airstream, but when you dyno with the hood open ... it's cheating really.
Not only do you now have a blower blowing cold air on the car, but at the same time the hood is open and there is no hot air at all.
This is not realistic, because in normal driving conditions, there is always a percentage of hot air circulating inside the engine compartment.
This gives higher (unrealistic) numbers as a result.
Kind regards
Der Abt
#73
02-14-2008, 02:29 PM
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That dyno shows a realistic result.
A stock Cooper that went from 111.2hp (flywheel) to 121.8hp (flywheel) with just software is very believable.
I assume this is flywheel power like it says on the dyno sheet and because if these are wheel hp numbers, it would not be possible.
This is a result that I have seen before.
A guy I know went from 111.1hp to 122hp with software and open intake (no heatshield).
Kind regards
Der Abt
A stock Cooper that went from 111.2hp (flywheel) to 121.8hp (flywheel) with just software is very believable.
I assume this is flywheel power like it says on the dyno sheet and because if these are wheel hp numbers, it would not be possible.
This is a result that I have seen before.
A guy I know went from 111.1hp to 122hp with software and open intake (no heatshield).
Kind regards
Der Abt
#74
02-20-2008, 01:46 PM
What do you think about my mini?? i'll tell you the mods later..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoAY7eLj9cE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZhfkf--4KY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoAY7eLj9cE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZhfkf--4KY
#75
02-20-2008, 11:53 PM
