As a motorcyclist, as well as a MINI driver, I consider my head to be a essential part of my vehicle. Riding would be no fun without it! Any sane motorcyclist knows that, just like any sane MINI driver knows not to cross the yellow. Hanging out over the yellow on a blind curve is a no no.

You can only compensate for it, by staying aware, looking ahead, and not driving at 10 10ths of your limit. Holding a bit in reserve to be able to swerve out of the way just as if they were another car, truck, a whole bike, bear, or a turkey, etc over the yellow.

Being a motorcyclist, I always gave the bikers a wide berth, didn't tailgate them and gave them the benefit of the doubt. While driving the MINI at a good pace is quite thrilling, doing it on a motorcycle would be a whole new level of concentration and exhilaration. Me thinks the bike will get pulled down behind the MINI next year.

 

Well, I WILL say that this happened on Thursday so it kept me wary (OK, nervous) about it the rest of the weekend and I maintained a good distance from the yellow (for the most part)

 

You're talking about motorcyclists who are breaking the law. I'm talking about bicyclists that are not. Another member said that they felt bicyclists didn't "belong" on the Dragon, and I was simply pointing out that they had the rlegal ight to be there (the wisdom of riding there is another matter altogether!).

Lots of pedestrians jaywalk on Beacon Street in Boston. Should pedestrians be banned from Beacon Street, then? As far as I could tell, this was the sort of of logic you were using by responding to my post by saying "well, what abot these idiots?"

 

Ah, but here's MY point, if the motorcycle is in it's assigned lane, but the rider is leaning into the other lane... is it illegal? Does the wording of the law specify that all parts of the bikers body must remain on the right side of the yellow? If not, then pegging a biker in the head with your fender leaves YOU liable and we run into the

 

Welllllll... I'd equate a person that would drive a bicycle on the Dragon with someone that would walk through the darkest parts of Central Park after midnight... Sure, it's LEGAL to do so, but you'd have to have a few screws loose to actually try it, and I think it's fair to say that you really shouldn't be surprised if you get mugged.

The real world's not a "fair" place and just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you should, hence the "they don't belong" comment. Frankly, anyone out on that road on a 1MP (manpower) bicycle is simply asking to be run over and hence does not "belong" on the same road as sport bikes, trucks with trailers and automobiles. They'yd be a hazard to themselves and others, pure and simple.

Of course, I live in a neighborhood where, despite the fact that the local government has spent millions to make 12'-20' wide bike paths along almost every single road, I still see biking nimrods cycling along half in my lane, oblivious to traffic. Sure bikes have the "right" to be on the road, but with a much safer alternative only 6' to their right, I really have to wonder how mentally competent some cyclists are.

As for banning pedestrians from certain roads - SURE, if having them there is unsafe. We already ban pedestrian traffic on most divided highways, and some downtown roads in Chicago ban ALL non-city traffic - anything except busses, including bicycles, get tickets. Why? because too many bikes were getting hit and impeding bus traffic.

 

Until that unfortunate day there appears a sign that bicycles are verboten on the Dragon, they have every right to be there. Granted, cyclists are taking risks an order of magnitude higher by riding the Dragon than any other 'typical' road, but they ride the Dragon for exactly the same reasons we drive it. It's a challenge, the road surface and features are incredible, and it's a whole lotta fun. And in almost all cases, cyclists on the Dragon are hardcore. Unlike the cruisers and cars that ofen 'clog' the road with leisurely sightseeing drives, the bicyclists that brave the Dragon know what they are up against. And, if you have ever encountered a group of these people on a hard run down hill, you'd find yourself in some cases trying to keep up. Most of these guys make their rides early on, when traffic is light. Share the road with them.

I make my defense of those cyclists from my younger, 'buffer' days when I used to ride everywhere. After a while, people were far less inclined to share the road with me on my bike, so I sadly got disenchanted with the notion of riding simply to save my life.

Those riding days fortunately have left me with sexy legs to this day though.

 

I had two situations during MOTD that I had to 'dive for the white' when I encountered motorcyclists skimming yellow with most of their body and ride in my lane. Had I been entirely in my lane but right up to the yellow line, I would have taken the rider's head off and then some. This with both vehicle's tires technically and firmly in our respective lanes.

Watch as an irresponsible trucker takes the Dragon curves. You will find the truck leaving the apex in his lane, the trailer's wheels in the lane before the apex, and the trailer body taking up most of not all the opposite lane. Same situation here, the vehicle's tires are all in the proper lane, but a good portion of the vehicle is hanging in the wrong lane.

 

Well, a lot of this is road design as well... I was reading a magazine article about how much more popular cycling is in Europe, but over there cycles have special lanes, special traffic signals and even completely segregated bike paths and throughways as well as lots of other safety ammeneties... here we make roads with no place to ride off the pavement and that's dangerous...

Except for my neighborhood... there the cyclists simply ignore the safety features that were so considerably provided for them and instead insist on riding out in front of me. I mean Jesus.. where has the common sense gone?

 

since I was in America when this happened, I plead the 5th... :P

 

Thank goodness I was BEHIND ImagoX, not in front of him, in my Blue Cabrio... whew. If my buddy ImagoX called me an Assclown, I think I'd Frown.

No question. It's the Assclown (see? I learned a new word!) of a "pro" driver / autowriter who thinks he's hot ***** who doesn't have an effing clue how to MAKE the car do that. He should take some lessons in the car with the "student driver" sign on the roof.

 

Around where I live, the sole concession made for cyclists was a three foot space right of the white line. The rest of the nice, picturesque roads have curves, hills, dropoffs and no shoulders to speak of. This is not the issue though, instead drivers couldnt care less about the cyclists in 'their' lane. Since a lot of these individuals bomb around in oversized SUVs and minivans babbling away on cell phones, it seems more risky to ride a bike on these roads than the Dragon.

 

^^^^^^

 

Dude... I never saw you cross the yellow, hence you're not assclown material. Congrats.

I dunno... After seeing multiple photos of trucks embedded into the asphalt and sitting like 6 feet over both the yellow and white lines I'm not so sure of that. It's mainly the sheer blind nature of 75% of those turns... I guess I'm just wimp.

 

Former cyclist here, I'm the guy who hates to see bicyclists on the dragon, or any other double yellow twisty road.

I know it's an unpopular viewpoint, and I can't define precisely why I feel that way, ("ride elsewhere and don't make me more of a candidate for vehicular manslaugher", might be my selfish attitude) but it bugs me to have to cross the double yellow line to pass a bicycle (Grant's mill road, Birmingham, or a herd of cyclists, set on riding Ruffner Mountain road two by two, where you have to completely get in the other lane!) It's easy to be sanctimonious regarding their need to share the road with spirited drivers.

I will say that everyone gets an edge-of-your-seat "thrill" as the car passes, but it's not one I care for.

Unpopular comment number two: All the Dragon photographers are great. Anyone else think that maybe they take neophytes by surprise, who therefore cross the yellow as to avoid zipping by too closely? Just a thought.

 

Thank goodnes none were of me. I did cross the lines once and realized my skill level wasn't up to par with my speed and slowed way down for a couple more runs.

 

I started the bicycle thing because I heard lots of people talk about how the yellow line is sacred, but the white lines are not important. I just wanted to remind people that those white lines shouldn't be crossed either.

And, I'm suprised at the attitude some people have towards bicyclists. Stuff like
is pretty sad to read.

I get cranky when the cyclists ride two abreast. But, single file on the shoulder of the road (as safety allows for the cyclists) is not a problem with me.

 

Only once have I been and bicycles were on the dragon and they seemed to be treated fairly. They were not over the white line since for the most part there is very little pavement to the right of the white line. The portion of white line where I and most others talk about crossing is in the turns where the pavement has been extended in recent years. Once on the straight it goes back to a few inches. Not enough for a bicycle to ride. This is not a normal road on perfect ground so a uniform distance from the white line to the edge of the pavement is not consistent like most roads.

If you want to ride a bike on the dragon then you'll have to take a lane along with the automobiles and motorcycles.

 

Hey, at least none of us was caught doing this!

 

Don't get me started on this topic here. How did we get from MINI Coopers blatantly crossing the yellow line to people riding their bicycles legally on public roads? The Dragon is not a race course and anyone who wants to race without any traffic should do an autocross or go to get track time.

There are only certain roads where bicycles are not allowed to be and otherwise it is up to the rest of the traffic to be aware of them, and not for bicycles to ride "off the pavement" when cars come. I walk fast and I am fit, does that mean that slower old people or overweight people should step aside on a sidewalk when I come through, or preferably stay home?
That thought is about as ridiculous as bicycles being in the way.

If Americans would actually use bicycles more often maybe then we wouldn't have such an obese population in the USA. In fact I saw many folks at MOTD that could do with a little bit of exercise.

Now can we go back to yellow lane infractions?

 

I'm weary of this discussion. Perhaps a freudian slip here?

 

He made an amazing recovery on this....

 

I wasn't at MOTD this year so I don't know if anything like this was already done but has anyone thought of including a few minute speech on Dragon safety or a little handout in all welcome kits?

This event is getting bigger and bigger each year so that means more and more people who have never been on the Dragon and may not really know the limits of their cars or just how dangerous that road is. I think a lot of people get over confident in these cars because their handling ability is so widely praised.... they don't realize that it takes driver skill, not just car ability. So many people come from areas that don't have roads that are anything like this and they may feel like they can take an on-ramp or a curve on a local road faster than most others so they can handle this road.

How about at the welcome dinner, someone takes 10 minutes to explain the dangers of the road, how important it is to stay in your lane, tell them how many bikers are out there and warn them of the fact that they will pass you on the lines. You have to watch out for yourself and others. Make a suggestion to all Dragon newbies that they take it once up and back at a decently low speed to learn the road and then work their way up to a safe speed. Show some pictures of MINI/other car/bike damage and show how one wheel off the side of the road can send you off to who knows where. Also explain that you don't ever try to keep up with the person in front of you, you drive to your comfort level.

Or perhaps sum this info up and put it on a handout that is in welcome kits.

I know that a LOT of people who go to the Dragon don't actually have any performance driving experience and may think that they can just rely on the car to do things they haven't done before.

Maybe have a "First timers on the Dragon" run where an organized group drives up and down the Dragon, at the speed limit, just to learn the road.

 

I think the first page of the Welcome Kit was entirely devoted to Dragon safety and driving.

 

Then these people really should know better. Sad.

 

I hear you but I think that most folks who are seen driving over the lines are not first time Dragon visitors and are well aware of the rules and safety guidelines. There are indeed a few folks at the Dragon each year who think that they are the next coming of Mario Andretti and are out to prove it. And I can assure these folks, they are not Mario Andretti.

Along those lines, I saw way too many folks blast past the overlook at warp speeds, that is in my opinion another big no no.

Herbert