Radiator fan and power steering fan
Radiator fan and power steering fan
Recently, I have been experiencing a couple of weird Fan issues with my 05 MCS.
Symptoms are like this:
If I am sitting in a parking lot for like 10 mins or so, heater on or off, A/C Off, radiator fan kicks in. Its pretty loud. The fan only runs for a short period time and turns off then it repeats.
However there is ANOTHER loud and noisy sound that comes along. It is so loud I thought my car was having a serious issue. It is definitely On - Off interval like the radiator fan. But it usually stays on alot longer and weird thing is when I move my steering wheel, and hold it in a position, any position but center neutral, the sound goes away. As soon as I let go, the loud noise comes back.
So here are a few things I have checked out tonight..
.
.
1) Radiator fan speed - High Speed kicks in for sure when A/C is on. Seems like Low speed doesn't.
2) PS Fluid - It is definitely topped
3) PS Fan - It kicks in well when the A/C is on.
I am a little scared to run the car, even though it does not overheat or anything... I mean, the fans all still works fine, and does not act up unless I am sitting around idling for 10 minutes or so.. what harm can it do?
Any insights will be greatly appreciated..!
Thank you in advance!
Symptoms are like this:
If I am sitting in a parking lot for like 10 mins or so, heater on or off, A/C Off, radiator fan kicks in. Its pretty loud. The fan only runs for a short period time and turns off then it repeats.
However there is ANOTHER loud and noisy sound that comes along. It is so loud I thought my car was having a serious issue. It is definitely On - Off interval like the radiator fan. But it usually stays on alot longer and weird thing is when I move my steering wheel, and hold it in a position, any position but center neutral, the sound goes away. As soon as I let go, the loud noise comes back.
So here are a few things I have checked out tonight..
.
.
1) Radiator fan speed - High Speed kicks in for sure when A/C is on. Seems like Low speed doesn't.
2) PS Fluid - It is definitely topped
3) PS Fan - It kicks in well when the A/C is on.
I am a little scared to run the car, even though it does not overheat or anything... I mean, the fans all still works fine, and does not act up unless I am sitting around idling for 10 minutes or so.. what harm can it do?
Any insights will be greatly appreciated..!
Thank you in advance!
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 337
Likes: 5
From: NJ
The problem with your car is that the low speed is not working. Low speed should engage at 105c and go off at 101c.
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
The problem with your car is that the low speed is not working. Low speed should engage at 105c and go off at 101c.
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
So even the other loud noise that is controlable by turning steering wheel is related to the radiator fan??
Oh and YES! The A/C didnt blow so cold during the summer times!
Thank you Very much
I have tested a few more things out today!
I have re-tested radiator fan's low speed and it is dead for sure-!
Another thing was I have pulled out the Power steering fan to clean and inspect. Everything worked as it should.
However, I believe I read a post regarding PSF (Power Steering Fan)'s operation...
1) Is it suppose to be on ALL the time?
2) Is it suppose to be on when I turn my key to ON position (The click right before ignition) ?
3) Is it suppose to be only ON when the engine is all warmed up? (I.E. Off if weather is cold and I am doing cold start.. etc)
Well the PSF unit itself did not seem too bad. It does not turn on when the engine is on (cold-start) / does not turn on when the engine is warmed / does not turn on when ignition is turned to ON position BUT! It turns on when A/C is on.
Any thoughts on that? Oh and also, the weird noise beside high speed radiator fan I have been hearing seems to be coming from the fan..
Well, an update with a few more questions eh? I guess its better than nothing
Thank you so much in advance-!
I have re-tested radiator fan's low speed and it is dead for sure-!
Another thing was I have pulled out the Power steering fan to clean and inspect. Everything worked as it should.
However, I believe I read a post regarding PSF (Power Steering Fan)'s operation...
1) Is it suppose to be on ALL the time?
2) Is it suppose to be on when I turn my key to ON position (The click right before ignition) ?
3) Is it suppose to be only ON when the engine is all warmed up? (I.E. Off if weather is cold and I am doing cold start.. etc)
Well the PSF unit itself did not seem too bad. It does not turn on when the engine is on (cold-start) / does not turn on when the engine is warmed / does not turn on when ignition is turned to ON position BUT! It turns on when A/C is on.
Any thoughts on that? Oh and also, the weird noise beside high speed radiator fan I have been hearing seems to be coming from the fan..
Well, an update with a few more questions eh? I guess its better than nothing
Thank you so much in advance-!
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 337
Likes: 5
From: NJ
The answer to questions 1, 2 and 3 is: The fan on the PS pump is hard wired to the high speed of the radiator fan.
Therefore the PS fan will only run when the radiator fan is commanded to high speed.
There are two occasions when this will be true: the coolant temp reaches 112c or/and when the A/C is turned on and the freon pressure is high enough to satisfy the pressure switch.
Therefore the PS fan will only run when the radiator fan is commanded to high speed.
There are two occasions when this will be true: the coolant temp reaches 112c or/and when the A/C is turned on and the freon pressure is high enough to satisfy the pressure switch.
The answer to questions 1, 2 and 3 is: The fan on the PS pump is hard wired to the high speed of the radiator fan.
Therefore the PS fan will only run when the radiator fan is commanded to high speed.
There are two occasions when this will be true: the coolant temp reaches 112c or/and when the A/C is turned on and the freon pressure is high enough to satisfy the pressure switch.
Therefore the PS fan will only run when the radiator fan is commanded to high speed.
There are two occasions when this will be true: the coolant temp reaches 112c or/and when the A/C is turned on and the freon pressure is high enough to satisfy the pressure switch.
[quote=frenchie;2641458]
No? 
Thank you so much tho. I see you helping out many others with similar problems lately! or maybe not so lately..
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6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 3
From: South Florida
Same exact thing was confirmed for my '05 MCS with 55K miles. Unfortunately the problem went undetected
long enough for it to take the A/C compressor with it 
.
Yesterday afternoon I suddenly lost my A/C. I talked to my independent mechanic right away and he said to bring in the car today. He did the same exact tests Frenchie described in his post and low and behold the fan's low speed is not working. The fan is only working at high speed, therefore, the engine is running hotter and the A/C compressor was also running at max pressure. This problem eventually killed the compressor (As confirmed by the A/C test gauges when turning on the compressor the high pressure gauge barely moved and hot air coming from the vents).
I am upset that the dealer did not detect this issue when I last took the car to them in mid-December. Would have been a perfect opportunity to replace the engine fan as they replaced the clutch and it would have also been covered under warranty.
So now I am looking at a new A/C compressor and new engine fan. This will be at least $1,300 repair bill
But what can I do?
I need the A/C. Yesterday we had temps in the low 90s
So I left the car this morning with him. He has a new replacement engine fan in stock but needs to order the compressor. If he can get a hold of the compressor, he'll have the car ready this afternoon, if not, it will be ready tomorrow.
The way I look at it....$1,300 still beats buying a new car with warranty. I love this car and keeping it in tip top shape is well worth the money IMHO
By the way, my friend tech told me that the low speed engine fan is a very common failure in these cars (He does at least 3 per week, that is why he keeps the part in stock) and the fans tend to go south by the time the car reaches 50K-60K miles, so keep an eye on it if your car has the factory fan still in place.
long enough for it to take the A/C compressor with it .Yesterday afternoon I suddenly lost my A/C. I talked to my independent mechanic right away and he said to bring in the car today. He did the same exact tests Frenchie described in his post and low and behold the fan's low speed is not working. The fan is only working at high speed, therefore, the engine is running hotter and the A/C compressor was also running at max pressure. This problem eventually killed the compressor (As confirmed by the A/C test gauges when turning on the compressor the high pressure gauge barely moved and hot air coming from the vents).
I am upset that the dealer did not detect this issue when I last took the car to them in mid-December. Would have been a perfect opportunity to replace the engine fan as they replaced the clutch and it would have also been covered under warranty.
So now I am looking at a new A/C compressor and new engine fan. This will be at least $1,300 repair bill
But what can I do? I need the A/C. Yesterday we had temps in the low 90s So I left the car this morning with him. He has a new replacement engine fan in stock but needs to order the compressor. If he can get a hold of the compressor, he'll have the car ready this afternoon, if not, it will be ready tomorrow.
The way I look at it....$1,300 still beats buying a new car with warranty. I love this car and keeping it in tip top shape is well worth the money IMHO
By the way, my friend tech told me that the low speed engine fan is a very common failure in these cars (He does at least 3 per week, that is why he keeps the part in stock) and the fans tend to go south by the time the car reaches 50K-60K miles, so keep an eye on it if your car has the factory fan still in place.
The problem with your car is that the low speed is not working. Low speed should engage at 105c and go off at 101c.
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
When low speed works it is adequate to cool the radiator and high speed will not come on.
If low speed fails high speed will kick in at 112c (the car will stumble and recover fairly quickly due to the massive amount of current required to run high speed)
The fan on the power steering pump also runs when the radiator fan is in high speed.
To verify this use an OBD scan tool and monitor the ECT parameter; you will find it goes to 112 centigrade then the fan runs.
The high wattage resistor mounted on the fan shroud has likely burned open. This resistor provides less amperage to enable the low speed function.
You will also find that the A/C blows warm air due to the low speed failure.
The fan has to be replaced!
Good luck and I hope this helps!
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: jacksonville, nc
so if i fix the low speed fan the horrible noise from my steering system will stop?
cause i am having the same exact issues that you are having sprp85. any update as to how you are dealing with your problem?
cause i am having the same exact issues that you are having sprp85. any update as to how you are dealing with your problem?
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Driver Seat
Already replaced on power steering unit on my 03 including the PS fan. Still question the operation of the PSF on hot days or in traffic?
Gets way to hot under there even before the radiator fan kicks in. So I've decided to splice into the circuit and add a switch in the cockpit for manual PSF operation as well. Easy enough to do with it being hard wired to the radiator fan!
Gets way to hot under there even before the radiator fan kicks in. So I've decided to splice into the circuit and add a switch in the cockpit for manual PSF operation as well. Easy enough to do with it being hard wired to the radiator fan!
1st Gear
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15
Likes: 1
Hey, the conversation went towards the radiator fan way, and I was wondering if you found out why your PSF turns on and off repeatedly?
My PSF does that too, and it's really bothering me, is it broken? or do I need a fix for it?
My PSF does that too, and it's really bothering me, is it broken? or do I need a fix for it?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 97
Likes: 9
AC and PS Fan triggers
Hi,
just to confirm when the AC is on the PS FAN isn't triggered automatically then? I'm trying to confirm this because I had my Radiator fan replaced a couple years ago for the low resistor issue now the low speed triggers automatically when the AC is turned on and I looked underneath to see if the PS FAN also triggers but it did not. It looks clean so it only kicks in with the rad fan in high speed then?
just to confirm when the AC is on the PS FAN isn't triggered automatically then? I'm trying to confirm this because I had my Radiator fan replaced a couple years ago for the low resistor issue now the low speed triggers automatically when the AC is turned on and I looked underneath to see if the PS FAN also triggers but it did not. It looks clean so it only kicks in with the rad fan in high speed then?
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 37
From another thread here:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...roject-31.html
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...roject-31.html
.. As I study the wiring diagram, I now know under what circumstance the (power steering) fan switches on. For manual climate control, it only switches on when the radiator fan is on low, and ONLY if the DME deems it necessary to switch on. It make sense as traveling at high speed there is no need nor desirable for the fan to be running against much stronger air stream.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 97
Likes: 9
PS Fan trigger test
Thanks
i was concerned it was not working, but saw a YouTube video where they tested by turning on the AC and my PS fan doesn't spin but theirs did I have manual climate controls and the low speed radiator fan turns on, mine is a 2005 Cooper S automatic
fuses are not blown either
thanks
i was concerned it was not working, but saw a YouTube video where they tested by turning on the AC and my PS fan doesn't spin but theirs did I have manual climate controls and the low speed radiator fan turns on, mine is a 2005 Cooper S automatic
fuses are not blown either
thanks
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 97
Likes: 9
solved PS Fan and AC on
Hi, I did more research and came across another forum that suggested to check fuses, and I have found a blown fuse F41 as described here, when I changed the fuse and put in the new one, put the AC on and my PS fan turned on at the same time with stage 1 fan for radiator as well. I am suspicious of the dealer removing this fuse or not checking it when I had changed my ps pump hoses for leaking
http://www.psmini.org/forum/power-st...topic6701.html
Try checking fuse F05 and F08 in the fuse module next to the ECU. Also, fuse f 39 and f 41 in the kick panel.
There is also a power steering pump relay (k69923) in the kick panel.
This saved me a lot of grief. My PSF is working well and no noise at all.
http://www.psmini.org/forum/power-st...topic6701.html
Try checking fuse F05 and F08 in the fuse module next to the ECU. Also, fuse f 39 and f 41 in the kick panel.
There is also a power steering pump relay (k69923) in the kick panel.
This saved me a lot of grief. My PSF is working well and no noise at all.
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