Hi All,

I'm digging through what I can find on the google, but maybe someone will chime in with knowledge of this. '13 R60 S ALL4. Driving down the highway, low oil pressure light, IMMEDIATELY hazards, to the side, slam on the brakes, and engine off. Luckily no bad engine noises.

Think I'm low on oil, sure enough I am, because I painted the highway and my car with engine oil. It appears to be local to the passenger side. I don't see any major oil from the lines I can easily see around the turbo on the drivers side, or anywhere else on the drivers side for that matter. Engine still turns over fine, no obvious holes in the block or oil pan.

I got the wheel and the dust cover off the passenger front wheel compartment and a bit disappointed in what that gave me visibility to. BUT, the real problem is, I have no idea what any of the devices on the front of this engine do/are. Does anyone know of a link to a video or a schematic showing the different components on/around this area of the engine? I'm really hoping it's just an intercooler line or something like that. I see one aluminum set of lines around where the majority of the leaking is but that line appears to be air conditioning.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, I really don't want to pay for a tow to a shop, then the shop, if it could be something not terribly complicated. I have seen in other threads people talk about the oil lines to the turbo being bad, mine were replaced by a semi-local shop, Detroit Tuned, with their upgraded lines. So I'm not thinking it is those.

Thanks,
Justin

 

Ouch!
Can you post a picture of what you see on the passenger side?
Intercooler wouldn't be spraying oil everywhere.

The only thing I can think of there is the main crank seal.

 

A sudden loss of oil is a very serious problem and likely a bit of work to address. And a condition that must be addressed correctly. On the side of the road is not the place.

Get the car flat bedded to a MINI shop or to your driveway. Be sure you make it clear the engine can't be started. Unless you can fill the engine with the proper amount of oil. Even then with that severe of leak the engine could be low on oil in no time again after an engine start.

 

Thanks for the responses. I have hopefully attached some pictures of the front of the engine, the top, and a pipe that had some oil inside of it.








The car was indeed flatbedded to my barn. And unfortunately, trying to get the electronics to turn back off when it was loaded onto the truck, the car actually did start up without a foot on the brake. But only for a second as I mashed the start button to turn it back off. It really is unfortunate not having a key and the ability to move the gearshift around whenever you want to.

The front crank seal was replaced by Detroit Tuned in 2021. And this leak seems to have gone from 0 to 100, I had no knowledge a leak even existed. So I'm thinking something under pressure failed. A source not on this forum told me to check the torque on the cam chain tensioner, it was tight and bone dry around the immediately adjacent surfaces.

I pulled the intake boost pipe off to get access to that tensioner, and was surprised to find oil inside of the pipe. Not a lot, but surprised me. Unfortunately I don't expect that is related to my problem unless someone knows otherwise.

I tried to get the front crank pulley off to get a better look at that seal, just in case, but don't have the goofy inverse socket the 3 pulley bolts require.

 

I think my next step might be to put it back together, fill it with oil, watch for leaks. if none, as there probably won't be, have someone turn the engine on while I watch for leaks. if I can't find it or isn't something I can fix, I guess the car is off to the shop.

Really hoping it doesn't have to go that way.

 

Wow. That looks messy.

I does look like something was shooting oil straight out to the passenger side. So, I would suspect the crank seal, especially since it was replaced. Maybe it wasn't seated correctly.
I would also check the PCV functionality. Oil in the intake tube suggests oil in the intercooler, which can get there from a leaky PCV system in the valve cover and is pushed through the turbo to the intake side. Check the cold side turbo hoses for oil ingestion. While this is not where your oil leak came from, excessive crankcase pressure will blow whatever isn't designed to hold such pressure. So back to finding that weak spot that let go.
I would first check for any obvious blown oil line and if you can, get a borescope to take a peak behind the pulley to see if you can spot any parts of the seal pushed out, missing etc.
Then I'd drain whatever oil is left in the pan, degrease that side of the engine - but again, check for any obvious open spots. You don't want to be pouring degreaser and water into the crankcase.
Then fill the engine with Liqui Moly Moygen version oil: https://blog.fcpeuro.com/liqui-moly-...-garage-uv-oil
Have someone start the car while you watch that side (with safety glasses on!) as a mess can be created quickly and you may miss the spot that started it. Only run it briefly till you see some oil spots.
Then get UV flashlight and trace the leak of the Molygen oil.

 

Messy. My friend, you have a penchant for understatement!

I take your point readily. I really couldn't imagine it being the crank seal, as there shouldn't be a lot of pressure there. But indeed, as you say, bad PCV will lead to increased crankcase pressure. Makes a lot of sense. Engine, passenger side, rear, top, I now know this is the PCV membrane cover, that has had a bit of oil around it despite having cleaned it a few times, always has. Didn't worry about it because it's such a small amount. Should it be relevant, on the drivers side of the engine, top, front, there is a tube that joins the main air intake tube. The two disconnection points along this tube have always had oily residue around them as well.

Guess it will take me a couple of days to get parts and the tracing oil, but I will follow your advice. I might opt to just change the crank seal since I'm almost already there, then do the cleaning and testing.

Thanks a bunch for the advice. Will post back.

 

I got the crank pulley off last night after finding a place with external torx sockets. The seal looks fine but I guess that doesn't mean anything.

Pulled the PCV cover, or tried too. It and the cover it snaps onto broke in several places. And I'd say you're right that the PCV isn't to be trusted as working, that membrane was so brittle it just came right apart. A new seal and upper cover/PCV membrane will be here today. Unfortunately now I'll have to wait for the lower part of the PCV cover to come in as it busted.

 

Yes, that PCV is done and there are passages integrated into the valve cover itself. So, yes, you should replace the whole valve cover.
Looking at your picture again, another theory I'd have is that the PCV failed, crankcase pressure increased and was spilling oil from the PCV membrane cover down the side of the engine and because of the quantity it hit the belt and the belt itself and pulleys is what sprayed it all over and made it look like something at the bottom of the engine failed.
I'd clean it up, replace valve cover, replace belt, fill with Molygen and, hopefully, live happily ever after.

 

Interesting theory, Eljay.

I would've disagreed because I cannot see a spot where oil would've flowed freely from the PCV cover on the rear passenger side of the valve cover.

Alas, your second theory seems to be correct. I replaced the valve cover/PCV assembly from @ECSTuning parts, Checked torque on some things, filled her with oil, and she has been fine since. I ran her for half an hour occasionally hold RPM at 2k for a little bit, and no more leaks whatsoever.

I then took it out and, outside, degreased and hosed off the engine, did another oil change, and have been fortunate enough to move on with my life. Drove it about 2 hours round trip this morning and aside from residual burning oil smells in the cabin, she is back in shape.

It does sound like there is more noise from the valve train than I remember, but that might be paranoia. The timing chain was done by the previous owner at 65k miles. I'm at 130k now. I might just send her in to Detroit Tuned when convenient to have them do the timing chain again and look her over.

@eljay @RockC thanks a bunch for your help. And a big thanks to @Detroit Tuned who was kind enough to provide some advice/support outside of NAM.


EDIT: PROBLEM NOT RESOLVED AFTER ALL

 

Excellent!

Glad to read a happy ending!

The more I understand this engine, the more I see how critical this PCV system is for its health. And it's badly designed for it.

 

I highly recommend doing a whole valve cover.

 

Been following this thread and so glad you found the root cause. That was surely a big mess there and scary looking. Thanks for letting us know the result and the various helpers on where to go for parts and information (PCV).

 

Detroit Tuned, I did do a whole valve cover. Didn't have a choice, the plastic broke trying to get the diaphragm out. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Well,

Yesterday coming out of work I noticed a puddle under the car. About 1/2 quart of oil. I topped it off and drove it home and it was only making small drips at a couple of stops.

So maybe the original problem is still solved and this is something else. Or maybe not. Took it to a small local shop, not real confident in them with a Mini but we'll see.

 

Darn, hope you find the issue and let us know...

 

Did you clean up the engine and underside when you "fixed" the cam cover? A 1/2 quart of oil would make a pretty big puddle... With all that oil under the car, residual drippings would create a decent puddle...

 

Oh no.
Let's hope they can trace it and find the culprit.

 

No, I did not thoroughly clean things up. A bit of degreaser and a light hose job. Figured I'd deal with the burning oil smell. I drove the car Sunday-Thursday. Until I saw this puddle under it Thursday there were no obvious significant drips. I looked at the spots I parked in throughout the week. There were little drips here and there, spots I didn't get to, oil getting blown around/under the car by the wind , that accumulated and dripped off. No puddles. Until this one, and indeed, 1/2 quart is quite a puddle, and quite a puddle it was. Guess I should also say when I "fixed" the cam cover, I did clean the aluminum mating surface up nicely, should be a good seal.

I put the molygen glow under U.V. oil in the car and left the shop with the U.V. light and a note. Hope that helps them find it.

These guys will get it or it will have to go to Detroit Tuned. I really would like to fix this myself. Sometimes I have time from work, built a few engines....but this time I just don't have the time, or the know-how. Will post back the conclusion. Thanks a bunch for the ongoing support.

 

They replaced the front crank seal. I should've just did it when I was in there, I was halfway there.

For now no leaks, if it starts to leak again I will update.

 

Thanks for the update.

So, it sounds like the first replacement wasn't done properly.

 

I suppose that's possible. But a very respectable MINI specialist put it in, and that was two years ago. I don't recall the mileage...but I certainly wouldn't expect a good seal to go bad so fast.

 

Maybe Victor Reinz seals aren't so good? Leaking oil again on the way in this morning. Got about a week out of it. Unless it's something else this time, don't know yet.

Could smell it pretty good as I got off the highway. In my work parking lot, sure enough, already dripping everywhere.

 

A good seal won't go bad so fast but a bad seal will...

Had a rear main seal in my new 2002 Porsche Boxster go bad in around 6 months (albeit with me putting nearly 20K miles on the car in that time).

Or a good seal incorrectly installed can go bad quickly.

A "trick" with a new rear/front seal is to not install the seal at the exact same position as the old seal. The old seal can wear a slight depression around the crank journal and if the new seal ends up at this place the new seal will leak very soon.

After the bad rear main seal was replaced the replacement seal was still oil tight at 317K miles.

 

RockC,

The shaft wear makes sense to me. The seal that has caused this thread was mounted in flush to what I assume is a flange inside the block, such that the surface of the seal was inset a bit below the surface of the boss on the exterior engine block. Guess I could ask them to put another new one in just flush.

At this point I'm getting concerned the new valve cover/PCV from ECSTuning, or something in that system, is still bad causing increased crankcase pressure. Bad piston rings could also cause increased case pressure but I'd think that would've been an immediate failure of the seal, not taking a week. Or somehow the block has warped and that is why the seal is failing. The latter really doesn't make any sense, never low on coolant and has never overheated.

What is different today from the rest of the week since the seal was replaced? Well I drove 75mph to work instead of 70... ??