Debating whether to get a Countryman S ALL4 or just the Countryman S (2WD). Acceleration is important to me and ALL4 loses almost 1/2 second in 0-60 performance to the 2WD Countryman S. Also the lower starting MSRP of the non-ALL4 allows me to add other options like (Sport Package, Cold Weather, Leather, Mini Connected, Navigation) and stay within my price range.

Does the benefit that I would get from having an ALL4 far outweigh the slight increase in acceleration performance of the 2WD (Non-ALL4 Countryman S)?

I'm not planning on using the Countryman for off-road excursions. We live in Chicago; while it does snow throughout the winter, generally the roads are well kept.

 

I always find these questions funny...which ever car you choose should be what you want and not what someone tells you you should have. If you need the All4...get the All4...if you don't need it...get the S and both cars can be modified to suit your power preference.

 

Thanks for the reply. After re-reading my question I realize that could be ambiguous. I would imagine that the ALL4 is excellent in snow. I guess what I should really ask is if the 2WD Countryman S with all-season tires handles well in snow.

 

All season tire in snow are OK but not the best option. Dedicated winter tires are best - All4 or not.

 

there are literally millions of FWD and RWD driving every winter in the snow with all season tires, dedicated winter tires will certainly give you more traction than all-seasons but it is your call

as to FWD vs All4 countryman, have you driven both? i have not driven a FWD countryman, the #1 specification in my new car decision tree was AWD, but others have noted that the FWD countryman exhibits a lot of torque steer, and if that is true, upping the engine power will increase torque steer

only you can decide if the torque steer is acceptable to you

i can tell you the all4 has no torque steer

i would strongly suggest a lengthy test drive in both FWD and all4 versions, and also automatic vs manual transmissions

my dad bought a cms all4 auto 2 weeks after i took delivery of my cms all4 manual so i have driven both transmissions extensively

personally, i like the manual but i must say that the auto in sport mode, either auto-shift or manual-shift, is a fine trasmission in the countryman

only time will tell if the manual clutch vs automatic is more robust

both of our countryman have near 8k miles with zero problems

in a couple of weeks i should be able to report on all-seasons vs winter tires on the countryman, my cms all4 has the 18" summer oem tires, dad's has 17" all-season oem tires, and i bought a second set of wheels and winter tires

so once the snow falls, i will drive both back-to-back, hopefully before the plows clear the snow

scott

 

The question really isn't how the cars handle in snow, as they will both be adequately capable with snow tires for the handful of times a year you actually drive on snow. The issue is how they drive in the dry, which is starkly different. In my opinion, the torque steer in the FWD CM was so bad and distracting that I felt it was nowhere near worth the cost, mileage, and acceleration advantages the FWD car has.

If you entertain any sort of enthusiastic driving intentions with the car (which is why we buy Minis in the first place, right?), you are going to want ALL4.

 

There is no comparison between an AWD car on all-season tires and a FWD on real snow tires. I'll take the car with the snow tires every time. The only thing the AWD does is make it easier to get going. The snow tires not only get you going just as well as an AWD on all-seasons but they are far superior when you have to turn or brake.

So for my $0.02 forget the AWD and buy the FWD and a set of snow tires.

 

We've had AWD SUV's for the past 10 years. Our CMS with FWD and winter tires went everywhere in the snow last year that the AWD's did.

 

i have 2wd CMS and when i had stripes done i had a all4 as a loaner and it felt slower but more planted to the road and a bit less fun to drive. i like 2wd but i know people who like awd

 

you need to go for a ride with me .... DCS/DTC off ... 4-wheel drifting the corners ... i think the all4 will stay with an MCS on a twisty road, the all4 handles more like a RWD than a FWD

scott

 

Much like Mark Twain's death, the rumors of "torque steer" on the FWD are greatly exaggerated. I have never experienced it, and I drive like a bat out of hell from time to time.

In fact, while they might exist, I can't remember a complaint about torque steer from a FWD Countryman owner. The only people who I see mentioning torque steer as a downside to the FWD Countryman are those with the All4.

Having said that, if I could go back, I would probably get the All4, especially if I lived in a snowy environment. It's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

As for pepping up the All4, some decent performance mods (performance exhaust, FMIC, ECU tune) and you will be mitigating any "drawbacks" of the All4 in my opinion.

Lastly, people talk about the performance of the All4 with all-season tires versus a FWD with snow tires, but why not compare the FWD with snow tires to the All4 with snow tires? I'd imagine the All4 with snow tires would be insanely stable in the snow and ice.

 

All4 with winter tires is like a mountain goat, from what little snow we got last year.

The problem with All4 is that it seems to have very fragile components (based on clutch and other driveline issues posted by All4 owners). I also believe the gas milage is worse, but I'd have to check the numbers to be sure. I would take a little torque steer over that risk and I probably would not have bought an All4 if I read about those issues prior to ordering.

 

Ok i always drive either rwd or audi 4w.... And i never drive all wheel drive when i was in montreal qc for 3 years... Yes montreal qc ... Country of snow and snow road.... Back theb my car was rx8 manual with summer ? Performance tire... It was my only car and i had to drive everyday... During the three year i had no problem... U do need to know how to drive.... Winter tires yes it helpa big time but with the cm size fw drive reg tire u should be fine.. I have a z4 manual and mcs my z4 was droven for years from Upstate NY albany with reg tire non- run flat.... For me i would not buy 4wd cos for maint cost and the car is heavy... Big turn off just get an reg cn s and option it out

 

I might agree with you if it was just "a little" torque steer, but it's not. WAY more than your average GTI, Civic Si, or even a regular MCS.

 

There's a reason why BMW offers different flavors of the Countryman brand. Some like 2WD, some 4WD, some prefer the integrated NAV, some prefer not, some insist on the 'S' and some the JUSTA.

At the end of the day, it matters not one iota. I see many people on this board enjoying their CM and not one of us has exactly what everyone else wants.

 

x2

 

X2= 4 for me

 

Dive into a turn "Full-hearted" with both (FWD/AWD) and you will know.

When coming out with the FWD, you will feel the front-end push and a lack of rear-end rotation. This is not like a MCS which will rotate the rear due to its short wheelbase.

When pulling out with an ALL4, the rear will push you out and rotate the rear with style and grace. It's not going to slip drastically off-angle like a WRX or GT-R, but with poise and purpose.

If the CM turns out to be the option for me, it will surely be an ALL4 or a JCW!

aaron

 

"Style and grace"? "Poise and purpose"? Are we talking ballerina's or cars?

Can't the issues you're describing with a FWD be remedied by a bigger sway bar in the rear?

 

Am giving serious thought to purchasing a Countryman. As a matter of fact, test drove 2WD this past week in order to get a feel for the car. I loved it! Dilemma is simply can not decide between the 2WD or AllWD. Initially, was going with the 2WD but now leaning toward the AllWD......Fear is if get the 2WD will wish had the All. Have a 4WD that have had for 5 yrs & never has been in 4WD but do not plan to keep the 4WD. Usually, when we do get bad weather it is more on the ice side rather than the snow but with 'Sandy' destroying NY it is obvious that can not predict the weather. What are the factors should be considered when making this decision? Pros & Cons? Thx in advance!

 

Any autocrosser will confirm your suggestion. An adjustable rear sway bar and adjustable rear shocks can do wonders for the pushing of a FWD. Unfortunately, adjustable sway bars aren't available for the R60 quite yet...but you can exercise a little left-foot braking to help rotate the Countryman. It's fun!

 

Since I started my journey with an R50 then a R56 and now r60 all4, I may tell you tht with a proper pilotage and decent tires you can drive in snow easily with all of them but the diffrence i feel between my All4 and ex MINIs are you dont have to try a lot with a R60 ALL4 to survive a snowy situation, I live at a hill and none of my MINIs except my ALL4 was successfullvto climb with run flats when it is snowing hard. Regarding the curves yes both my R50 and especially my R56 was very sucessful until I drove my r60 with sport suspension package which has completely different dynamics than a regular suspension R60. So when deciding which one to buy of course it is your decision and we can only share our experiences here, I am most happy with my All4 with sport suspension and it is not much problem that she is half a second slower, now I bought my DP and have a custom performance exhaust sitting at my garage waiting for guarentee to end will have almost 210 hp ecu tuned and will live

 

Are you living with stock tire pressures in your ALL4/run flats or have you bumped them up 5 lbf/in^2 as I have? The difference in noise & grip is so much better. Mine are summer run flats, however....

 

I am on stock tire pressure.

 

i used a tire pyrometer to set my tire pressures and ended up at 42psi front 37 psi rear on 225/45-18 91v pirelli p7 summer runflats

the biggest change i noticed is the ride is much improved, also turnin is crisper

the tires are wearing evenly across the tread and also evenly front to rear

they were 1/2 worn when i rotated them at 4,900 miles

scott