So I've had my manual CM for a couple of months now, my first manual car, and I love it. Shifting makes it fun to drive. I've gotten much better at shifting, but one thing that I still need improvement in is getting a fast start from a stop in 1st gear. If I try to do it quicker it gets jerky or shudders. So I try to give it some gas first before letting out the clutch. Is there a better technique? Has anyone rev'd it to 3500 - 4000 and then just let out the clutch? Will that squeel the tires? I haven't had the guts to try it. Thanks in advance.

 

yep, 3,500-4,000 and dump the clutch will spin the front tires. useful in the right situations, but not for everyday use.

for a prompt start, I'd start feathering the clutch at 3,000 rpms, and keep the revs above 2,500. i would avoid prolonged clutch slippage though - the whole evolution should not take more than a two seconds .

for an average start, I'd launch at 2,500 and let the revs dip to 2,000 with only light throttle. once the clutch is fully released then I'd add a bit of throttle smoothly and start up through the gears.

my preference is not to mind much about how quickly I get off the line when driving around town. i'll start easy and then use 2nd gear to get to my target speed, then select the gear I want to cruise in.

it's easy to spin the tires, and it's also easy to slip the clutch too long in order to avoid spinning them. i'm gentle unless i have a good reason otherwise, and i reckon the drivetrain is greatful...

cheers,

Charlie

 

I wouldn't drop the clutch from 3500 RPM in an AWD countryman. You're taking all that torque and just slamming it into the drivetrain with nowhere for it to go. In a cooper S that is FWD then sure drop the clutch all you want and the tires will just spin. Getting off the line in an AWD car is much trickier. It's just like taking off regularly but start at a higher RPM and be a little more aggressive with it. Just takes lots of practice

 

I think cmt52663 said it best in how to launch. There are points in the RPM band where your torque hits your tire's traction point. Depending on your particular tire (and ambient temperatures), this band range will change slightly. While I haven't drag raced a manual Mini (my wife's is auto), I have dragged my Challenger and this holds true on all manuals: don't over torque your tire's traction rating. For example, when I had Pirelli PZero's on my R/T, I could band up to 3500 before I lose traction (and made a 4.9 0-60). With my current tires (long life, B traction rating), I can't launch much over 2000 or I will lose all traction (and every shift through third I will chirp). AWD's are even more different than FWD and RWD in where the torque is being distributed from (your differential will take more pounding needing to turn four wheels), but your traction is distributed through four tires vs. two.

It's a lot of practice to learn what's right for your tire set, car, and location. Take cmt52663's advise as a starting point and fine tune from there.

 

i have only had my countryman 3 weeks and i cannot speak for auto trans, but the manuals also have a anti-rollback feature built in that holds the brake for about 1-2 seconds. every car i have ever owned has been manual trans and it definately is taking some getting use to. i'm still breaking my mini in but the anti-rollback may work as a launch assist once i get the hang of it later. check it out on a incline, let off the brake with the clutch pressed in and see if it doesnt roll for a second or two. i kinda wish this feature had a on/off switch, unless i'm able to it use as a launch control after 1200 miles of gentle driving.

 

sirbikes -- I completely missed the AWD mate. Better take me with a grain of salt then!

Cheers,

Charlie

 

I would strongly advise NOT launching an ALL4...

You really don't want to be the first owner to find out how weak the driveline is when it comes to unloading on it. My hope is that Mini used a weaker clutch, with hopes that it would fail first to save the transmission or transfer cases from blowing. That said, take a hop over to the STi and EVO boards and take a gander on how ruthless damages can get when launching and something breaks.

The Countryman isn't a fast car in a straight, but an absolute BLAST to drive (from my single test drive) when the road starts to bend. Enjoy doing what it does best!

 

That said... I'm going to reply again, so if you choose to risk it, here is a GREAT old forum post talking about methods in launching a turbo low displacement awd car.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...threadid=50056

A few things you need to consider...
- It's HARD to move an AWD car from a dead stop quickly
- The 1.6 absolutely has ZERO power to launch naturally aspirated
- Until you build boost, consider yourself at no greater benefit than the non-S
- Read the thread and they talk about pulsing the throttle to build boost from a stop... This was a technique I tried to learn in my Evo, and NEVER figured it out.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

Awesome, thanks for all the good advice. Just what I needed.

 

I'm fairly certain that the anti roll is part of the traction control system, its deactivated when the traction control is switched off, but i don't think the anti roll alone can be switched off. its great for the hills around here! i like it

 

I've been away from these forums for a few months, so I'm still catching up on my reading, and I don't know what sorts of technical discoveries about our new All4-equipped cars may have been revealed in the interim, but my understanding of the AWD system is that if one manages a proper launch without wheelspin, the car should actually still be in FWD mode throughout, as the rear clutch pack will not engage the rears until slip is encountered... these All4's are really just FWD until traction conditions demand otherwise (hence the great fuel mileage). If you do manage to break traction, it will only be for a fraction of a second, and the rears will engage, almost imperceptibly. Either way, if someone's inclined to do so, you might as well try while it's under warranty!

On a more serious note, I haven't really 'launched' my own All4 per se, as I didn't buy it for that purpose, but despite having driven manuals for my entire life, the clutch in this one does seem a bit more finicky than some. I do drive it reasonably spiritedly in the twisties, but I don't need to try to break any 0-60 records anymore... I wouldn't suggest it to anyone who needs that sensation; get an STI instead and you'll be much happier. Don't sweat the difficult learning curve, you'll get better as you get used to it, and again, these cars are either overweight or underpowered as equipped if you're looking for an off-the-line good time.

Cheers,
Tad

PS- Good on you for learning the dying art of the manual box!

 

Suggestions: turn off DSC, keep the revs up, DO NOT dump the clutch, practice.

 

Nope, i turned the traction control off today hoping it would roll instantly once the brake was released and it still holds the brake for a second.

 

I believe the anti-roll, Hill-Assist is engaged when the brake is released and clutch is depressed and you are in a gear. I believe to disable you can, release the brake without having the clutch depressed, or be in neutral w/ clutch depressed. This is fine on a flat surface or if pointing downhill, when pointing uphill you may roll back a bit too much unless your really quick

 

The guys in this thread are nuts. They must have high duty replaceable wear pad clutches or stronger drive trains. Revving to 5500 rpm and then dragging the clutch? Don't think that's gonna work for the CM for long.