Hi Everyone,

I'm opening this thread because I want to make a point about people being punitive to MINI dealers (or any other car dealer for that matter, but MINI dealers in particular). I am not a dealer and am not associated in any way with any other brand of car dealership or retail.

The reason for my thread is because it appears to me that sometimes when a dealer makes a mistake, people are trying to punish the dealers far beyond just fixing the problem. Folks remember that dealers are humans too. When you buy a MINI, you know that you're going to have to go to a very selective number of dealers to get that car serviced. That means that whether or not you like it, you've essentially created a relationship with that dealer or that small network of dealers if you're lucky enough to have multiple dealers closeby.

I'll make my point by using a contrasting example of how a friend of mine and I dealt wtih a Chevy dealer. We both have the same Service Advisor, and we've both had shoddy service work done on our Corvettes. They scratched mine one time and they dinged a trim piece in his once. When he learned that they dinged his trim piece, he went all out trying to be punitive to them, raising all sorts of he!! etc. that did not get his problem fixed. He complained to everyone who would listen about every facet of the repair process...scheduling, loaner, workmanship and other issues as well.
On the other hand, when they scratched my car, I just told my adviser they scratched it and asked them what they could do about it. They appologized, fixed the problem etc. Now, I was inconvenienced by the problem. No doubt, but I wasn't a jerk about it and I got what I wanted. The next time I brought my car back, they did a minor repair for free. They schedule me quickly and don't give me any crap. My friend on the other hand gets crap from them every step he takes. And (to me at least) it's no wonder why.

The contrast between a Chevy dealer and a MINI dealer is just as stark because there are so few MINI dealers. My feeling is that instead of trying to "kill them" for making human errors, if folks would work with them, they'd find out in the end, they'll do a lot better. Don't put up with crap service, but at the same time, be reasonable with them and I think you'll find that they'll be a lot more reasonable with you.

That's my 2 cents worth.

POWER to the MINI's!

 

One additional comment is that I am a very PICKY person. I want my stuff done right. PERFECT really. I have extremely high expectations.

I'm just reasonable.

 

I can only speak for myself but some of the Mini servicing I have received has been well below the quality of servicing I have received from Chevrolet, Toyota, & Honda. So if I complain I think I am justified in expecting Mini servicing to be at least at the level of what I have experienced in the past.

I have never been unreasonable to my SA. When I am dissatisfied I come to NAM & beyotch like everyone else The only time I threw a tizzy directly at an SA was when I took 1/2 day off from work & was 150 miles away from my house & on the way for over-night, prearranged warranty work & he said he wasn't going to have a loaner for me afterall so could I come another time
(let's just say he managed to get me a loaner )

 

There comes a time when it is appropriate to go ballistic. Your point is well taken and in your situation, you had a very legitimate gripe. The point I was trying to make might be better understood by reversing the situation.

Let's say that I was the dealer SA and you were the customer. If I royally screwed you over, I'd expect you to have a problem with that (even to have a MAJOR problem with the situation you described). However, if during the course of working on your car, we encountered a minor faux pas, then I'd hope you could be reasonable with me on it's resolution.

I've seen several comments by various people about service that was provided and there was a problem. I've thought to myself..."would it be possible if I was the SA to solve that person's problem reasonably or is the person being unreasonable"?

Certainly in extreme situations, it's appropriate to freak out, but not over some little minor detail that's not much more than a tiny inconvenience. Do you agree?

 

I agree but it's awfully hard for an inconvenience to be minor when a round trip to my dealer tops 320 miles. That said I don't freak out over minor inconveniences I just come here & vent

 

I'll admit, my pickiness has caused me to keep my visits to a certain Mini dealer *cough*Nick*cough*Alexander*cough cough* to a BARE minimum, they always seem to do a half a-- job, scuffing my dash, scratching the ac temp dial, bending heat shields, etc. Granted, these are little things but it's those little things that bug the heck out of me, epecially when something happens with every visit!...

 

jq77, it is strongly recommended that you read a lot of the threads, especially those in "Beneath the Bonnet" and in "MINI Talk" to see the stories folks have to share about their experiences with MINI Dealerships.

My dealings have been, for probably 80% of the time, the best I've had with any car dealership. But there have been some spectacular flubs and odd experiences, as well.

From what I've experienced on NAM the past almost 5 years, the folks on this site are very hopeful and receptive to MINI dealerships, and only post their negative experiences when they feel they have been dealt with unfairly. This forum serves as a function for the community to keep informed about such matters and is one of its great benefits and strengths.

 

Yeah we rarely post the good stuff. Wonder why that is just human nature I guess

I will say that my dealership has improved a lot I left them to see if the grass was greener & it oh-so-wasn't but since I came back they have been doing better. Can't give em raves or anything but they are doing "better"

 

Here's one doubt if I would post. Today I had to take my MINI in for some scheduled warranty work. They got me in and out quickly so I returned home at a decent time. Not bad for a 200 mile round trip.

Now to what I would have actually posted. I drove 200 miles today to get a seat fixed. After the repair and re-repair it was no better than when I arrived this morning at the dealer.

 

Yeah it's pretty hard to get all excitied about getting say your dome light repaired or some other minor fix handled in a timely manner when you had to drive 320+ miles to have it done. So to me, until Mini decides some of the rest of us deserve local dealerships, we are gonna be pretty hard to please no matter what

 

Dealers are not human, they're like cuttlefish...scum sucking bottom dwellers

 

All are very good points! I too have a 120 mile commute to my nearest MINI dealer (240 miles round trip). I guess I should also make the point to BAMATT that I wasn't directing any of my comments AT you. I have not read any comments you had written complaining about MINI service prior to this thread. I do appreciate your input however. Your insight is well taken.

That having been said, you (BAMATT) make an interesting segue to another question which is: Why do you think that there are no more MINI dealers than there are? Obviously this is part of their strategic marketing plan. Anyone who owns a MINI really has to WANT to own one or they wouldn't go through the travel issues related to MINI ownership. Do you think that the absence of dealerships creates a sense of exclusivity for the brand that is worth more (to them and us, but in very different ways) than creating more dealerships?

For example, on behalf of the MINI dealership (and MINIUSA for that matter), it's possible that this exclusivity computes to a much more devoted car owner than if all the dealerships were "right around the corner". This is a great way of contributing to creation of "car nuts". Conversely, from an owner's perspective, that exclusivity probably in some ways computes to higher resale values because the cars aren't ubiquitous. Maybe the lack of dealers actually benefits us? Ya think?

 

dupe

 

Your Vette painting story has merit. On the other side, "The sqeaky wheel gets the grease".

Since your fairly new here, I will relate my one major issue with MINI service. Normally, I'm laid back, let them work it out. My wife, however, if the food is served cold ... she sends it back ...

Short version:

• I bought the JCW Suspension from a dealer and they installed it.
• Car pulled, took it back
• Its OK now
• Car pulled, back to dealer (and dealer visits are a major aggravation ... time off from work, a headache)
• Its too spec now, drove off the lot, car pulled, took it back.
• Tech to a drive ... yeah its pulling Then WTH did you tell me its OK?????????

Am I supposed to be happy with these people now?

• Service manager says ... Looks like you need camber plates. WTH? Its a JCW suspension. YOUR warranty ... YOU take care of it.
• We cant get it to spec.

At this point, the wife was ready to have it ripped off the car, all our money returned, reimbursement from our times off from works .... HELL has no fury .... but I took it to another dealer ... twice as far away

• It's OK now, test drive, no its pulling to the right
• Hmm. I'll make you an appointment when the MINI rep is here ... they call.
• Another day off from work. They fix it. Car settles down and all OK

Now ... you dont think I have every right to be furious at that first dealer who never even thought to have the MINI rep look at the car and suggest I buy Camber Plates

BTW, I did not yell at any of the ppl, calmed the wife down, But that is ONE less dealer that no longer gets my business. I dont know if that is "punitive" but its the American way ... money talks

 

MINI dealers, from my experience, go out of their way to deny warranty issues. So, having dealerships spread further out, and making the customer drive further to get to one, cuts down on the likelyhood of a warranty visit.
I swear, I think SAs are paid on the number of claims they deny.

 

Chows4us, GOING POSTAL? I'm a Postal worker and don't appreciate this term. I'm mild and thaughtful and don't lable people as in"Demented propeler head". Now back to point, I think the service I get from Mini of Mountainview is magicaly wonderful even if I have to drive 50 miles. Lets drop the labeling.

 

Fixed .... I forget this wasn't the PI thread

 

That's an awful story Chows. I can certainly appreciate your frustration. I think overall we understood that you just had a major problem with the dealer. By any reasonable person's standard, that was a major problem. I did not say that you had no right to be irritated in that situation. You seemed to think that was my point and it was not. My original point was (very simply put) that sometimes "One can catch more flies with honey than they can with vinegar."

However, essentially, you took what I said point for point (on the follow up) and attempted to blow it away. On a point for point basis, you do make a few reasonably compelling arguments, however you've completely missed the boat on the "essence" of my (follow up) point. Even though you gave me your reasons for why my theory holds no water, you never said what you attribute MINI's following to, or it's high resale value.

You spoke about (and I'm not quoting you here) how other more exclusive cars are better than MINI's in one way or another, but how they have lower resale values. You never said what factors you think the high MINI resale value is a product of. Evidently from your comments, maybe you don't think it's superior quality that makes for the higher MINI resale value. You were very firm on the negatives in your comments, but you failed to say anything positive about what makes MINI a superior product. I believe that the MINI is a superior product to most cars produced today. Maybe I'm wrong in ASSUMING that you DO think MINI is a superior product though. I should take that into account.

And maybe you just need a little "lovin". That's ok too, all of us need that sometimes!

Cheers friend!
POWER to the MINI's!

 

In dealing with dealers, and anyone for that matter, it's important to remember that what goes around, comes around.

If service is poor, keep notes, stick to the facts, avoid personal attacks, and go up the chain of command at the dealer and, if needed, at Mini as well.

 

AMEN!

 

This is probably the most effective thing one can do when they're having a problem with a product or service and don't like the results they are getting.

I worked as an escalation manager for AT&T for several years. My job was to take problems from my work group (about 20 people) and get them solved. It could be something major like an entire telecommunications system being constructed in an area that was holding up a customers service schedule, or something silly like a technician being petty and refusing to put something important at the top of the pile.

The #1 thing I learned is that you be polite, but honest, no matter what, and explain exactly what you need and in what time frame. If that person says "That's not possible," "No," or (the very worst that can happen) "sure" but then fails to do it, you tell them (again, politely and honestly) that you need to speak to their supervisor. You keep doing this until it's fixed. It doesn't matter if you have to escalate to the President and CEO of the company, you keep going til someone fixes it. Getting irrate gets you nowhere. If the person you're dealing with is giving you attitude, ask them again if they are able and willing to help you - don't give them attitude back.

However, I don't agree with the original poster that it's acceptable to be inconvenienced or deal with bad service. There should be some offer to make amends - a free service visit or detailing, maybe a free accessory or apparel that they know you have been wanting, a guaranteed loaner for the rest of your service visits...whatever...something should be offered to compensate for your frustration and loss of time. It's not being "punitive" to expect something in return for your inconvenience.

 

Exactly, this has largely been my experience with BMW/MINI for 7 years. I am always very nice, by the way - has not helped in the least when it comes to them being ignorant of or wanting to ignore TSBs, doing everything they can to find ways to evade warranty work, damaging cars and how they deal with it (you have to force them to do a walkaround when you drop it off, they don't want to because they know that they then can't deny that they caused the damage), not having parts when the car is scheduled for a service that needs them, etc etc.

Far from "trying to punish the dealers far beyond just fixing the problem" I've simply shared my real experiences, relied on the forums to help me find information to help us out, and tried to help others in kind. I have also given credit where it was due, but it is worth noting that even with the best service I've had it has been very important to go in with the information the 'enthusiast' message boards have to offer. Without the knowlege and TSBs in hand I know I would not have had plenty fixed on my cars, which is pretty sad*.

Car forums are a place to discuss issues and things and yes, even vent about difficult experiences - for the most part I do not think people are being unjustly punitive.

Anyway, power to the car forums, many thanks to this network of car people


*Which is why I posted this info, https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=84946. If they are successful in quashing this info we will be at their mercy completely :(

 

Well, I can only say that when we've tried this in the past it never really helped. Neither the head people at the dealer, the company field service people, nor HQ cared. In the end it just seemed like a 'take it or leave it' attitude with a heaping dose of "there is nothing we can do they are a franchise" from the company.

 

And I agree with that 100%. In that incident I never once blew up. Just took my business elsewhere. I got no argument with that point

Oh ... True, I dont think your "exclusivity" theory holds water. Lots more exclusive cars out there. My theory? ... hmm....

Actually kind of simple

The MINI culture is a great culture, no doubt about that. Friendly people bonded together. Thats the culture. "Following" implies those that continue to rebuy the same car, time after time. Why? Well ..., no offense taken here please but I believe it to be two reasons:

First, its a cheap entry level car, MSRP way less than the average car sold in the US (2005 numbers). Its targeted at teens and young twenties starting out in life. Most of the cars aren't even out of warranty yet. Its been a free ride (including maintenaince). If this is the FIRST car you ever bought with your money, chances are your going to love it. This is no different than me saying the first car I bought was a Mustang years ago. To this day I would love to buy a Shelby but hey ... not going to happen

Second, it IS fun to drive. Its cute. Easy to park, fair gas mileage (if you like small cars, many ppl hate them ... but my wife loves small cars). I dont know anybody who doesnt say its not fun to drive.

So the resale is going to new young ppl, buying a cheaper used car, etc. But dont kid yourself either ... its all about the money and BMW wants you to move up to their 3, 5, 6, 7 series cars as you move on in life.

The better question is whats going to happen after being on the market for 10 years, say 2012. All first gen cars out of warranty. Your paying for the hassles.

When its a perceived free ride ... you put up with the little things because its fun. You get a bit older, the car gets older, all of a sudden you come to expect more to life than living at the dealer.

If you sampled buyers ages, sure they are the geriatric crowd as buyers but I think there was a huge thread here once on ages and the ages were, by far, under 30 (as in the majority).

IMO, MINI targeted exactly right. Cheap to buy. Get in the new kids first able to buy a car. Its "foreign", small, different, peppy, fun to drive, easy to park HELL ... I'd have loved one in college! Now you got first gen over, next gen coming. older cars being turned around ... Its one thing to have high resale value IN warranty. The true test will be if it holds water OUT of warranty

I think I just covered that pretty well. Cheap entry level, new kid on the block, fun car, easy to park, fair gas mileage, cute, etc. etc. Under warranty ... its free. You got to remember that boards like NAM see a tiny fraction of the overall population. Most ppl never post on a forum. Under warranty, the car will turn over to the second owner. Lets take another look in 5 years and see if anything changes.

Sigh ...

I know many ppl hate reading JD Powers or any other auto consumer reports but the facts dont bear that out.

Lets put this into perspective.

Superior to what? Cars in the same price/class and utility?

Well, I dont buy American cars and haven't for many years so if your comparing to a Cobalt, Neon or any of the other stuff America puts out in the same price ... no contest. MINI wins!

If you compare against Honda/Toyota (maybe thought of as appliances), well no contest. I've had many Toyotas that never saw the inside of a dealer for ANYTHING ... NADA. Buying a MINI became like a culture shock (buy a cot ... move into the waiting room)

So what do you mean as "superior", in what way?

Quality?

Sigh ...

I have owned many cars, most plebian, in my life and NONE of them ever ...

1. had to worry about mushrooming shocks
2. had rust under the door sills Rust? In this day and age?
3. Flashing idiot lights for no reason ... on/off nothing wrong.
4. Stumble and stall because I changed the brand of gas? That frighten the hell out of my wife. Who ever heard of an engine so finiciky it cared whether I bought Shell or Exxon?
5. Gauges go crazy because the wiring harness was frayed and bare wiring grounded them out.

You cannot tell me that a "superior product" comes without knowing how to wire the car. Thankfully, my wife was never driving and went into limp mode ... Then, I would have blown my top.

So, to some, maybe these are trivial items but quality built cars do not have them I have ever seen (they may have their own). Its known to some here I also have a RAV4 since 2003. Want to know what there complaints are there? "The cupholders suck"

Now if you mean superior in terms of what you get for your money ... MINIs, if stripped, are about the BEST buy in the market. They really are. Started adding too many options and you got a $40K car and are way over your head in terms of other cars available.

If you mean in FUN .... Absolutely FUN for the price!

If you mean performance, well ppl dump $20K in mods because they are not happy ... I'll never do that again (well $12K). YES, great performance cars for their price ... if you keep the price ... down.

So I guess you need to define "superior"

 

OK so the first trip with my 06 MCS to our local Mini/BMW service dept wasn't stellar either:
1. Outside temp guage reads 5 degrees higher than actual - told it was "within tolerance" - (ie - there is no adjustment possible?)
2. Speedometer reads 66 mph when actually traveling 60 mph - told this was within Mini's 8% tolerance (do the math-it's 10% fast!:impatient )
2a. My concern was the lease mileage would rack up an extra 10% (he didn't realize the odometer reads separate from the speedometer - odometer actually on spec)

Is this a Chevy or a BMW? Their marketing department is doing a much better job than the service department!
Fortunately these rocket-scientist didn't design the car.

As a former Quality Manager (in a different industry) I laud people to professionally complain about poor service- don't give up being a squeaky wheel!
Motoring on!