My son is buying his first new car (and since I'm giving him some financial assistance he gets some feedback from me on his choice...ha!). Based on a LOT of criteria and road tests and some feedback from me (as a MCS owner) he's got it narrowed down to 2 options:
2006 MC 5spd vs 2006 Scion Tc 5 spd

Scion is 160 hp, anit-lock, good safety profile, good stereo and sunroof (last two are his criteria of importance...not mine!)...it's a new model but built by Honda and all indications a Very solid/well built car. I drove the car with him....must say I was Very impressed....nice shifting, solid road feel, plenty of power, good brakes...felt secure! Now not as fun or agile as an MC! Delivered it's $17.5K....in looking at it prob. one of the best values out there.......lookswise, reminds me of a smaller less attractive Infiniti G35 coupe. Hatchback gives it good versatility for him. Gas mileage was only so so (biggest negative...something like 23/30)

Now my pick is still the MC....again I'm biased toward the Mini because of my experience with it......it doesn't have the power of the Scion, and priced w/ his options it's $19.5K (2K more).....but the added agility on the road and the better gas mileage are it's main selling points over the Scion.

Any other pro's/con's am I missing? Again my experience is w/ MCS, any MC owners have any big plus or minuses about the MC that we might not have considered?

Honestly going into the test drive, I knew the Scion was a good value, but I assumed after driving both it would be apparent the MC was the best choice...but my son (and I guess I am too) still not sure, because the Scion was more impressive than I thought it would be.

Thanks!

 

Toyota builds Scion.

I too am car shopping. I have narrowed it down to the upcoming 2006 VW GTI, Mini Cooper S or Subaru WRX TR. All about $23,000. I need advise too. Sorry to hijack.

 

built by Honda well that's gonna be news to the folks at Toyota

 

Scion tc is actually Toyota, not Honda. However, everything I hear about them is good news. Not sure I'd want one over a MC.

However, it will probably get less notice from the local Police, so he might do better in that regard if he's a lead-foot like me

I don't know what the resale value of the Scion's are. But if he's going to drive it for a while that may not matter.

 

Make sure to spend the extra $650 for the scion's optional side air bags. Then your son will have 4 airbags instead of 2 (compared to the SIX that come standard with the MINI).

I'd have a hard time buying a car from a company that views their highest level of safety features to be optional!

MINI will retain its value and the scion will rapidly depreciate.

Plus, we are a lot more fun to hang out with!

Either way, they are both fun cars and your son will be a lucky kid to get a new first car!

 

I always have trouble getting past the thought that if you don't look at the MC or MCS and say, "that's the car I gotta have", you probably should buy something else.

 

Yeah maybe I should wake up!! before posting on a Sunday AM!! yeah Toyota might not be too happy w/ my mix-up....but in my head Toyota=Honda (again I'm sure their marketing group wouldn't be pleased w/ my perception!)...but I mean that in a good way .

Anyway, good point about the standard Mini airbags! Yeah it does bug me that they charge for the side airbags, but def. worth it...so it makes price diff about $1,500.

 

I agree with you, for me seeing (and more importantly driving) the MCS made that very clear....but for someone that is 18, I'm not sure that argument works..I think you have to have owned lts of cars to KNOW exactly what you want.

 

If possible rent one of each for a week and after driving one for a week then the other for a week he should know which he wants.

Earl

 

Recently, we were shopping for my wife's new car. She wanted a Cooper but also wanted me to look at what else was out there, and we thought we'd take a look at the Scion Xb. I liked it, but when I found that it didn't even offer optional side air bags, I left the dealership and went searching further. After looking at all the small wagons and other hatchbacks that could hold 2 Saint Bernards, we decided that nothing even came close to the value and quality of the Cooper. So now we will soon be a 2 MINI family. . .

I agree with the previous statement that if someone doesn't look at at MINI and KNOW that is the car for them, then it probably isn't. . . .

 

i too was debating between both of those cars. i started off with a MCS last may, then traded for a 350Z (should have kept the MCS), could not drive the Z in the horrible cleveland snow so i was looking to trade it between an MC and a scion TC. yes the scion is nice but the materials used inside are cheaper than a cooper (especially the sunroof sliding cover. take another look at it, its like a flimsy window shade). and the seats quality and materials are not on par with a mini. and gas is a definate factor. dont get me wrong, the TC is a nice car. but i ended up going with the MC and dont regret a thing except that i didnt get an MCS. but a cooper is a cooper. and an MCS is in my future.

 

I have to agree with resmini - if you don't IMMEDIATELY HAVE TO HAVE a MINI, go with a "traditional" car ... you are paying more for the fun aspects of the car and if cars don't make you smile, then don't bother.


[OT]
"Toyota makes Scions" ... isn't this like "BMW makes MINIs" which we all regularly dispute?
Are Scions actually made in the Toyota factories? Or are Scions made somewhere that is set up and owned by Toyota, but built to a different tune?

 

I don't think that anyone would dispute that Toyota makes Scions. Our xB has a Toyota engine and there are several things in the car that have Toyota enblems on them. Plus, if you go to a dealer, at least the ones I've been to, they don't separate Toyota and Scion like BMW and MINI do

 

Both cars are good in values and good at their own category.. If I am going to choose amoung those for myself, it would be MC definately. But if I am going to choose the first for my son, I may lean towards the tC. The reason, is relibility, by comparison the tC sounds more rock solid than MC in relibility category. Some first time owner may not know how to take care on a car. (i.e. need to oil change for certain month, I know some first time owner don't change oil for yrs.) Those toyotas are rock solid, and can endure more abuse then you can imagine.

 

My Brother just bought a Scion xA for his son. They are VERY happy with it. Solid car. Great value etc. Maybe one underlying attraction to the Scion is being different than Dad. Not always a bad thing. + if you're helping financially it would be hard to balk at the 2k savings.

 

Off topic:
Are you kidding me, your mini can hold 2 full grown St. Beranards? My friend has 2 full grown St. Bernards (@ 250+lb). They need a mini VAN for their dogs.

 

The Scion tC actually compares better against the Cooper S because they both have stock power in the 160+HP range (tC 160HP, MCS 168HP). The MC has 115HP stock, but better fuel economy than both tC and MCS which are the "hot" performance oriented models.

The Scion tC is based on the European version of the Toyota Camry, called the "Avensis". The tC has a normally aspirated 2.4L 4 cylinder engine that produces 160 horsepower, stock. Scion sells a "bolt on" supercharger upgrade for the tc that increases power to 200HP.

Regardless of what Scion's literature may claim regarding the tC's sporting pretenses, this car is nothing but an economy sedan/coupe with so-so handling dynamics, low on standard safety equipment and a nice factory stereo, that's it. The tC is indeed better looking than other Japanese econo-coupes/hatches in its price range and it has the Toyota quality and reputation to back it up, but in my humble opinion, the existence of the MINI in our market simply does not justify spending money in the Scion tC, no way no how.

The MINI is a world class product, manufactured and engineered by BMW. We are talking about here a British iconic car with Germanic genes and the racing history and pedigree that no Japanese car will ever dream to have

The Scion tC is a heavy 3,000+ pounder car. The MC weighs no more than 2,500-2,600 pounds...big difference in performance!

MINI has an excellent reputation for safety engineering and standard safety features....VERY IMPORTANT!. Here is what you get standard with every new MINI, MC or MCS:

6 airbags (2 front, 2 front seat side mounted and 2 front to rear side curtains, same system as used in the $75,000 BMW 7 Series). the airbags are dual stage and "Advanced" system or "Intelligent"

4 wheel disc antilock brakes (I believe 4 channel system)

Electronic Brake Force distribution (EBD): Prevents vehicle noisedive effect under hard acceleration as the system automatically regulates brake pressure back to front to prevent weight shifting from minimizing effectiviness of the rear brakes.

Cornering Braking Control (CBC)

Available Dynamic Stability Control (MC & MCS)

Available Limited Slip Differential (MCS)

Standard Electronic All speeds traction control (ASC+T) standard on MCS only.

There are many more factors such as resale value, performance, handling prowess, looks, resale value, warranty that make the MINI an infinetely superior choice over any Scion product.

More questions, just ask!

 

The Scion is cheaper and has more power hmm

Yes, there is a HUGE item you haven't discussed and that is reliability.

Scions are Toyotas cutting edge group, targeting young drivers out of college, first jobs ... catering to big stereos, IPOD, whatever is in with the younger people. Whatever they learn from SCION, Toyota then incorporates into their mainstream line and eventually, maybe, their Lexus line. Scion has 7% of ALL Toyota sales and that is very good considering how little advertising they do.

The scion, if like all other toyotas, will be a workhorse. Take it home, get the oil changes regulary, and you will drive it in to the ground (usually) before any major repairs, if ever, are needed.

Can MINI say the same thing?

Put another way, if you want the reliability, Toyota has decades and decades of perfecting their quality. Can MINI say the same?

 

I have owned 3 MINIs and all have been ROCK SOLID RELIABLE!


I personally will never buy a car for my children from a car company (Toyota/Scion) that believes that critical safety features are "optional"

MINI's 1.6L TRITEC engine has proven to be BULLETPROOF so does the Getrag manual transmissions.

The Scion xA and xB, don't even offer side curtain airbags! WTF???

Go MINI and you will never look back!

 

Yes my MINIs have been reliable. More reliable than the crop of Japanese cars I owned 12 years before them.

 

I'll be happy to provide VIN serial numbers and actual service record history to anyone who asks!

MINIs are a solid and reliable product, period!

 

Well, the Toyota thing has been beaten within an inch of it's life. How about that the MC has better resale value. Recently rated #1 by Forbes as first in retained value.

The MC is definitely fun to drive and never fails to put a smile on my face.

Easier to park, smaller turning circle, 4 star crash protection rating for both front and side impact, driver and passenger front and side airbags, front and rear side upper level airbags to protect the driver and front & rear passengers.

Oh, and did I mention that it is fun to drive.

 

I can't believe you're actually buying your kid a new car! What a lucky kid you have!

When I wanted to drive, I had to get a job first to save up enough to afford insurance, then to afford to buy an $800 Subaru GL. No airbags, sh*tty *** stereo, couldn't go over 75 even if I was going downhill. I continued to save my pennies & push for advancements in my job in order to upgrade to an $1800 '90 Chrysler LeBaron Convertible. That car was cool, but didn't last long as the transmission was sh*t. I continued to save my pennies, worked hard in college and pushed forward in my carrier in order to end up getting a $3000 '97 Ford Taurus. Since then, I've continued to work hard towards my goals and my career has already taken off. At only 22 years old, I can now afford to buy a $30,000 MCS with all the options I want. I paid for everything myself. The result? I learned that hard work and dedication will bring you success. I know the value of the dollar and I have respected every car I've owned (no matter how much I hated certain characteristics of them).

My point in sharing this is to say that no matter which one you choose to go with, make sure your son knows how fortunate he is to have parents who can afford to buy their child a new car. Make sure he doesn't take this generosity for granted. I have several friends from back in high-school who's parents bought them cars (beaters... not new cars), and they drove them into the ground because they didn't understand their value. Now they're still working in various restaurants or the Mall and are having to learn the hard way that life doesn't just give you what you want... or even what you need. You have to earn it.

Sorry for the long post. You've got a very lucky kid!

 

Amen to that post, BBOY!

 

Yeah the safety items do really sway me (plus w/ the sports package he will hace DSC...which I think for newer drivers is a Very good thing).....and I bet he'd thank me for the extra 5-10 MPG w/ the MC down the road w/ the $3/gallon prices coming! I think He liked the seats and interior better on the Scion (why I'm not sure...will have to ask more)...and someone else nailed another factor that I bet is making this difficult for him.....maybe he doesn't want to be driving around in a car soo similar to the old man's MCS!!