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As some of you know BMW branded lubricants are no longer made by Castrol. In Nov. 2014 BMW AG signed an exclusive agreement with Shell to provide their oil. Here in the US that would be Pennzoil at your local auto parts store. Then today a friend brought to my attention that the Mobil 1 European Car Formula no longer carries the BMW LL-01 approval. In addition, several BMW forums have also recently made note of this. To verify this I reviewed the most recent datasheet from April 2016 and sure enough LL-01 is no longer listed as one of the approved specifications. At first I thought their might be a bit of skulduggery going on following the switch from Castrol to Shell but further research showed that based on performance specifications the formulation has in fact changed. For example the newer spec Mobil 1 has a lower viscosity at both 40ºC and 100ºC.
So if you were like me and a user of Mobil 1 it's time to start searching again. Personally, I'd been planning to try Amsoil somewhere down the road. It just turns out I'll be switching sooner rather than later.
So... The Mobil 1 ECF oil formula changed; when? What does that have to do with BMW changing from Castrol to Shell? Not being mean, I'm just looking for info. I've been using Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance on 7k mile changes... Girlfriend has been using the same on her car, and she's nearly at 200k with 15k intervals!
Nov/Dec 2015 the formulation changed. There might still be some stock of the LL-01 floating around so it doesn't hurt to look.
Some people were still under the impression that BMW/MINI branded oil was made by Castrol so I wanted to help clear that up. I then wondered if the removal of the LL-01 rating may have had something to do with the switch from BP/Castrol to Shell/Pennzoil since neither are fond of Exxon/Mobil and I trust large multi-national companies about as far as I can throw them. You'd be amazed at what goes on behind the scenes. But in this case no monkey business was involved. Just a reformulation that didn't get BMW's approval. Although if you read the LL-01 spec the new Mobil 1 appears to meet it, just not as well. Go figure.
Another reason is MINI is switching to 0w-30.....
And the MINI branded oil will soon be 0w-30.... apparently it is being done to further increase MPG'S....
as a side note, Honda has been running 0w-20 for a few years....
Quality & performance of the new Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is comparable to the outgoing Mobil 1 0W-40, carrying many of the same claims. However, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 no longer carries BMW LL-01, due to changes in BMW’s testing requirement.
....
So if you were like me and a user of Mobil 1 it's time to start searching again. Personally, I'd been planning to try Amsoil somewhere down the road. It just turns out I'll be switching sooner rather than later.
One tip...
Amsoil does have a good reputation in general, but as a "boutique" lower volume oil, it is not officially tested to the BMW spec...just formulated to meet or exceed it. Guess you have to trust somebody right?
But since they have an interesting sales setup where so many sales people are earning commissions on sales it can be hard to find REAL info on it...so many cheerleaders, who have sometimes been called out on some boards as sales reps, pumping up a product....
Bob's oil forums are a good place to start...since BMW LL-01 is a older spec that is only used in BMW areas where bio-fuels are used not even many euro oils have the spec anymore...most of those now carry the diesel compatible BMW LL-03 spec that works well as an ultra low ash oil, but unfortunately does not handle extra moisture from ethanol fuels very well....hense bmw's continued use of the LL-01 SPEC in North America ....
Now that they are switching to 0w-30 oil and stocking only one oil for all cars..it can complicate things a bit.
Yeah, its a real shame that they reformulated the M1 0w-40 and lost the LL-01 cert as it was the best quality oil for the price.
A trusted mechanic recommended the Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 oil, as it performs very well in our high-temp/turbo engines, and carries the LL-01 certification (unlike Amsoil, etc).
The only downside is that it costs about $16 more per 5L than the M1 (M1 is $23 for 5L vs $39 for the LM 5L on Amazon)
My oil change is just about due, so im going to give it a try and report back on the results.
I strongly suspect that most reasonable fully synthetic oils are good enough for our engines. The likelyhood that someones 2008 MCS suddenly stops running correctly on the basis of a tiny change to mobil 1 is not aligned with my experiences to date.
I strongly suspect that most reasonable fully synthetic oils are good enough for our engines.
I agree with Steve. Most synthetics including Mobil 1 are actually made using a 30% to 70% Group 4/5 oil mixed with hydrocracked Group 3 based mineral oil. A true FULL synthetic oil would be 100% Group 4/5 and expensive with Group 4 polyalphaolefins (PAO) oil being less expensive than Group 5 polyol ester (POE) . In addition some of the LL-01 requirements like having a lower SAPS level has more to do with protecting the catalytic converter than the engine. In fact for meth tuned vehicles a slightly higher SAPS value is better since it increases protection and helps buffer the oil from blow by dilution.
Either way most all synthetics have excellent heat tolerance which is the most critical characteristic in turbo's. For our own specific application with direct injection it should be somewhat beneficial to look for an oil with a low noacks value. This value is the percentage of oil and volatiles that evaporates during operation, enters the PCV systems and ends up on our valves. Generally speaking the greater the percentage of true Group 4/5 synthetics present the lower the noack value. It won't stop valve coking but every little bit helps.
Otherwise, just pick your flavor, change it every 5000 miles and motor on.
Info from Mobil says they didn't actually change the formulation,
but they lost the LL-01 certification due to changes in the certification
criteria as of about Dec 2015.
Anyone have a link to the specs (viscosity, etc.) of the Shell supplied MINI 5W30 oil?
I have recently had my oil changed by a mechanic who replaced the timing chain and cassette for me. He went ahead and pulled the oil pan down checking for any debris and put the car on a diet of Castrol Syntec 5W30 with a 5,000 mile oil interval change.
I have recently had my oil changed by a mechanic who replaced the timing chain and cassette for me. He went ahead and pulled the oil pan down checking for any debris and put the car on a diet of Castrol Syntec 5W30 with a 5,000 mile oil interval change.
Does this sound about right ?
Sounds good to me, as long as the Castrol meets the required spec.
I change my oil at ~ 5K intervals.
I have recently had my oil changed by a mechanic who replaced the timing chain and cassette for me. He went ahead and pulled the oil pan down checking for any debris and put the car on a diet of Castrol Syntec 5W30 with a 5,000 mile oil interval change.
Does this sound about right ?
Like silkcut said.
I think Castrol makes at least 4 different kinds of 5W30 that does not meet Mini's spec. The right stuff is not always easy to find.
I strongly suspect that most reasonable fully synthetic oils are good enough for our engines. The likelyhood that someones 2008 MCS suddenly stops running correctly on the basis of a tiny change to mobil 1 is not aligned with my experiences to date.
RW
Both accurate, and very diplomatically phrased - especially the last sentence.
I suspect that a lot of this falls into the category of splitting very small, very fine, hairs.
Agree as well. It hasn't been called Syntec for a few years. It's Castrol Edge Titanium now. My '08 MCCS has about 50k miles on it. I got it in early 2010 with 19k on it, and used Mobil 1 for about 2 years, and switched to Edge 5w-30. Recently replaced the oil supply and return lines, and the filter housing and cooler gaskets (Detroit Tuned Super Kit) and it is spotless inside. Zero carbon buildup at the turbo inlets and outlets. The turbo itself was very clean. Timing chain and tensioner replaced under the TSB at about 45k miles. Chain measured fine, but was replaced anyway. Spotless in there too.
I have been using Mobil1 0w40 European Formula since I bought my 2011 MCS used over 2 years and almost 40k ago. 5k oil changes, and MINI genuine filters each time. Uses less than 1/2 quart between changes. If I continue to use the Mobil1, now that it is no longer LL-01 certified, would I face a warranty denial if my engine should go "boom"? I have a Hendricks extended warranty until 81k or so. Anyone have any idea? I will change brands if I have to, but I like to stay consistent with oils that I know have worked in a certain application. Opinions/info, anyone?
06-06-2016, 08:21 PM
