How To "Clutch Change from Hell": How-NOT-To...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:21 PM
DaveVT02S's Avatar
DaveVT02S
DaveVT02S is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: As Far North in NY as You Can Get
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Clutch Change from Hell": How-NOT-To...

Should subtitle this thread "Surprise!!"

Lots of info here about changing clutch/pp/flywheel, but it may not prepare you for what you can (or might) run in to. Get and a beverage and read along with my experience before you say, "That doesn't look so hard." (Also, read Way's top post in this How-to section.)

I was getting a little slippage occasionally when trying to accelerate in one too high a gear, so in April I started researching and assembling parts for the clutch change. I've changed 3 clutches before, including one in a Japanese FWD, and have done all my own work on my MINI (from SC pulley to LCA bushings), so figured I was "eyes-wide-open" about what I was getting in to. I do track days and AutoX, so purchased ACT c/pp/rb, Findenza flywheel (used, from here, and bought a new wear surface), and the little parts for while it's apart (shaft bushings, input shaft seal, guide tube). And A B&M Short Shifter, just because :



First hint of things to come: took almost 6 weeks for the little parts to come from DDM Tuning (CA) (Note: DDM Tuning is not connected with DDM Works.): was told at various times that the parts (listed on the website as "in-stock") were coming from Germany. Next was England, then a local MINI dealer, and finally Japan - and that's when I went a little over the edge. But I eventually got 'em.

Cut to mid-August (busy summer, and trans didn't slip if I had it in the right gear): now shifter is getting kinda stiff trying to get into gears, and clutch pedal has more travel; time to get ready to change. Friday, August 26th, leaving the house, got the car into reverse, out in the street, and couldn't get it into any gear. Quick thinking, shut off car, got it into 1st, and used the starter to get it back into the driveway (residential neighborhood). Get out the jackstands, start the disassembly. BTW, did it in the driveway because I figured I'd need the garage for parts storage - I was right:



I did the "trans-out-the-bottom" method, so here's an 'obligatory', "here's-my-car-all-apart" pic. (including a friend w/ his '06 JCW, stopped by for moral support - HE has a maintenance contract; what fun is that?):



When I was disassembling I managed to break the end of one of the shifter cables; specifically tore the rubber around the "socket" that snaps onto the ball. "Crap, that's a hundred-dollar-mistake" I thought - turned out to be $120+. Later, bigger worries right now.

When I finally got the trans bolts all out (and 11-ty hundred wiring connectors disassmbled - thank goodness for digital cameras) I started to gently pry the trans from the engine. Open a ~1/4 of an inch and a ball-bearing fell out. Uh-huh. Continued with the trans removal and saw this:




The release bearing had absolutely "grenaded" - the inside of the "bellhousing" and the PP looked just like somebody had shot it w/ a 12ga shell full of metal shards - a few times. What a mess...actually had to hammer the E8 socket onto the stock pp bolts to get them out, the heads were that damaged.

As part of all the "shrapnel" damage found a 1/2"x1" hole inside the "bellhousing" near where the axle outputs are. Shopped for a used/rebuilt unit, but couldn't afford the $1500 plus, so resorted to 3 layers of JB Weld with some metal mesh (window screen) for extra strength and ground down a couple of the cracked webs.

After the clean-up, got busy with the mechanical work: 1st up the guide tube - and snapped one of the bolt heads off (guess they're in w/ locktite red, but the 1st two came out fine, so ?). Borrowed a set of ez-outs, tried to be careful - and snapped that off in the bolt. Ooookay - get out all those tiny dremel grinding bits I never use and grind-grind-grind until I got most of the ez-out piece gone and could drill and re-tap the hole. Time involved on just this one procedure: about 6 hours. Got the bushings changed, didn't do the input shaft seal because it wasn't leaking (nor was the rear main - in fact the block had some light rust right under where it resides), and pulled out the new release bearing - and it wouldn't go over the guide tube.
Wrong bearing in the ACT kit. Fabulous. Phoned ACT, had to send some pic.s, all the while trying to get it moving (this was Friday of Labor Day w/e). Had to email some pic.s, it went out that afternoon, but didn't get it 'til 8 days later. In the 2nd pic, the left is wrong and the right is, er, right:





(FedEx sucks, btw: took 46 hours to move 240 miles from Chicago to Indiana, according to tracking.)

In the meantime, continued on w/ the flywheel/disc/p-plate install. Bought the f/w used, bought and replaced the wear surface (all >$200 total) but got no bolts w/ it. And the alum f/w uses M8 bolts for the pp, factory is M9. No biggie, run down to the autoparts. Nope, gotta get 'em from the dealer - who in my case was 4 hours away. Wait for shipping, or get out the aforementioned dremal and cut/grind them down to the correct length? Cut-grind-cut-grind on the f/w bolts; used 10.9 hexheads from the hardware store for the pp. With trying to work (glad I'm self-employed) got everything ready to install by the time the release bearing showed up. Of course, you have to drop the exhaust to get at the shifter box (to install the B&M & the new cable). 85K on those exhaust flange bolts meant (you guessed it) cut-grind-cut-grind to get it apart.

Shifter install itself went fine, but when I opened the box with the new cable I discovered my educated guess as to which cable was, uh, wrong. The new ones have dust boots and it worked so much smoother I elected to keep that one and get the other so I'd have both new. OK, time is ticking away, instead of the place out West and wait for shipping I'll call the closest dealer - in my case Keeler MINI in Latham, NY. MSRP, but it's in stock, shipping is just $7, and "You'll have it tomorrow." And I did - except the "708" bag (that was opened when I opened the box) had a "707" cable in it. Call Keeler to arrange for exchange and was told "It's the right cable" "No, I already have that cable, I need the other one, the one ending in 708." (On hold for a few minutes) "I went up and got both cables and they're the same." "I've got both cables that I took out of the car and they're different. Different lengths, and different ends! Want me to email you a pic.?" "No." (Hold for another few minutes) "OK, I see the difference now. Which one do you need?" "The shorter one." "What does the end look like?" "What part of 'the shorter one' confuses you?" (there's ~3" difference in the lengths) "OK, I see it now, I'll get it sent out and you'll get it tomorrow UPS w/ a return tag." Elapsed time from first order to correct cable in hand: 5 days. The pic I was ready to send them:



So, while I'm waiting, I'll put the trans in - and it won't go. Tried turning the crank, tried turning the output splines, pulled it out & realigned - just won't "engage". Take it back out, remove the disc/pp, and there was some type of burr on the disc splines. Of course! Phone call to ACT, a little negotiation, and a discounted, double-checked disc was on the way (FedEx 2-day). (BTW, thanks to Mike H. for the help - I'm really not a grouchy guy, it was the frustration talking.)

Finally got the trans in, the cables here and hooked-up, (replaced a bad CV joint boot along the way, which is the only thing that went exactly the way it was supposed to), and (drum roll) no clutch pedal: touch it and it went right to the floor. Some research on here resulted in me discovering the slave cylinder was bad (fluid in the dust boot). Nothing local, call Keeler: msrp, but they tried to jack up the shipping on me (!). "Why is it more expensive to ship this little box than the $7 for a bigger box?" (the shift cable) "Must have given you a break on the shipping (chuckles)." "Well, after what I went through with the shifter cable, maybe I SHOULD get a break (my turn to chuckle)." "That was you?" "Yup!" "I'll waive the shipping." "Gee, thanks."

Arrived w/ no issues. but spent the next 4 days off and on trying to get the damn thing bled. Could hear a squishing in the master cylinder, and thought, "It's Thursday noon, better get one on the way so it'll be here tomorrow, just in case." Call Keeler again, in stock, but the price he gives me is $101. WTF is it w/ you guys? 20% above MSRP? When I went to the internet to double check the p/n you think they didn't have a price with it? "Oh, OK, I'll give it to you at msrp." "Gee, thanks." "You'll see it tomorrow." Next day, out finishing some of the little stuff, wondering if it's even gonna be the right one - and the UPS truck goes by w/out stopping. Wait an hour, it's 4:25pm, better call and get a tracking#. Got the number, and was immediately told, "But it says here it didn't go out until a little while ago." By the time he could get a word in edge-wise between my bouts of screaming, he offered to send another out FedEx, overnight, Saturday delivery. Oh, goody, FedEx. Whatever. Sulked around, waited Saturday and - Surprise! - nothing showed (turns out FedEx doesn't do Saturday overnight in my area). Just kept bleeding, trying different tricks, finally tried all the tricks at once (I know, brilliant, but I wasn't in my right mind at that point anyway) - including the "walk away for a few hours and try again", which did help (both me and the car).

Edit: seeing another thread on here reminded me: thermostat. Hey, it's apart, it's a hmhmhm to get to, might as well change it now, should be easy. Hahaha! Two trips to Autozone; first stat had three "webs" and thus wouldn't fit in the housing, second trip had them scour around for the "right one" - which it isn't but has the right dimensions and temp, so I made it work.

Finally got to test-drive it around the block for the first time this past Sunday evening. 38 days from the time I first starting tearing it apart (thinking I had all the parts) until I got to drive it again. I really like this little car, don't even mind working on it - but holy crappola I hate buying parts for it. It got so bad that, where I would normally get excited that a box would arrive with a new part, I instead came to dread opening it. I've since found another place to try to source OEM parts, but I'm not looking forward to trying anything major for a while .

If you're going to try, you have my best wishes for good luck...
 

Last edited by DaveVT02S; 11-20-2015 at 01:04 PM. Reason: replaced photos deleted by hosting site.
  #2  
Old 10-11-2011, 07:18 PM
jeffster06's Avatar
jeffster06
jeffster06 is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hiram, Ga
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Wow that sounds like an absolute nightmare. I tackled my clutch in about 2 days. I don't know what I would have done had I run into the problems you did. Although I am lucky and have way motor works within an hours drive of my house. He usually keeps everything in stock not to mention his seemingly endless knowledge. Props to you for your patience.
 
  #3  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:37 PM
WayMotorWorks's Avatar
WayMotorWorks
WayMotorWorks is offline
Vendor
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 10,557
Received 757 Likes on 618 Posts
Well at least you got it together. If you need OEM parts again let us know we'll get you the right ones the first time.
 
__________________


HOTCHKIS | DDM | CRAVEN | AKRAPOVIC | NM ENGINEERING | MEGAN | FORGE | IE | OS GIKEN | POWERFLEX and more
  #4  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:58 AM
DaveVT02S's Avatar
DaveVT02S
DaveVT02S is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: As Far North in NY as You Can Get
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks, Way. I'm hearing that a BMW dealership in Burlington, VT, is getting a MINI dealership, but they put off opening 'til March. I lived there for several years, so another excuse (I didn't need) to head back for a visit.

BTW, after I sent you the email about availability of a used trans I made the "rash" decision on the JB Weld repair - seems to be holding up. And, FWIW, I just picked up a new TSW engine mount from a guy in Marketplace, had sold his MINI before it arrived - had discovered my OEM mount was in 2 pieces during the "CCFH" - whether it was like that before I started or I did it during, don't know.

Am liking the ACT set-up, especially now that it's broke in: shifting in "anger" and it almost slams into engagement. The difference in "rev-ability" now w/ the alum flywheel (lost ~15 lb.s total w/ this set-up over the stock I took out) is comparable to the difference I found in installing the Unichip (which is for sale in the Marketplace, BTW - didn't re-install after removing during the teardown).

And if there was one bright side to dealing w/ Keeler: by the time I was getting done dealing w/ them, I'd call the dealership, go through the voice prompts to get to Parts, somebody would answer and I'd ask for a certain guy - "May I ask who's calling?" (give them my name) "one moment" - and the guy'd be on the phone in, like, seconds (no more being on hold for me LOL).
 
  #5  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:12 AM
scf's Avatar
scf
scf is offline
5th Gear
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Weare, NH
Posts: 623
Received 17 Likes on 17 Posts
Holy crapola!
 
  #6  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:04 PM
racket's Avatar
racket
racket is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Haha, that is almost exactly what happened to me. Couple of slight differences, I broke both cables, missing flywheel bolt, snow storm shutdown shipping in atl for a week. I've never had a project on a car take so long or have so many little issues that took days to get resolved. Glad you got it all back together.
 
  #7  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:53 PM
Asalome's Avatar
Asalome
Asalome is offline
Neutral
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I know this is an old thread but I have a 02 MC and about to drop the tranny but can't figure out how to remove the shifter cables on the tranny side please help
 
  #8  
Old 05-24-2012, 06:12 PM
Evasive's Avatar
Evasive
Evasive is offline
5th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Asalome
I know this is an old thread but I have a 02 MC and about to drop the tranny but can't figure out how to remove the shifter cables on the tranny side please help
Scroll down this link. Use a plier to pinch the clips then two screw drivers to pop off the cables.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...eplacement.htm
 
  #9  
Old 06-06-2012, 01:32 PM
DaveVT02S's Avatar
DaveVT02S
DaveVT02S is offline
4th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: As Far North in NY as You Can Get
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asalome
I know this is an old thread but I have a 02 MC and about to drop the tranny but can't figure out how to remove the shifter cables on the tranny side please help
I used a carpenter's 'wonderbar' (flat prybar), have since found out to use a pair of heavy-duty 6" needle nose pliers. Or, if you've got $$$ to burn, BMW/MINI has a special factory tool
(sorry for the delay, haven't been checking back as often as I used to...)
 
  #10  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:37 AM
jbkone's Avatar
jbkone
jbkone is offline
4th Gear
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 373
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
HOLY CRAP! I've done mine 3 times now and none have been that involved. The first one, I broke the slave-cyl bracket and that wasn't fun. I think I JBwelded it back on and it's been fine since.
 
  #11  
Old 01-19-2014, 08:11 AM
spr061's Avatar
spr061
spr061 is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It was nothing to change the clutch, just did my 04
 
  #12  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 PM
Stoker's Avatar
Stoker
Stoker is offline
4th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Fresno
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
That was a funny read!! And i completely empathize with you!!

I tend to drop stuff (No feeling in either thumb, playing drums 40 years has a price) anyway, dropped the lower bleed nipple on my R53... didn't fall on the floor, It's in the engine somewhere, cannot find it…Three hours of searching, Then two trips to the store, I figured out that it was a 5.5mm nipple! 5.5mm Nipple? Why?

Following day call the closest mini store… No we don't have that anymore, only for 2002's…. BS I think but, i'm not gonna argue..

My local guy doesn't have it… After searching his used bins for An hour..

So, with no option, i start to tear the car apart… Figured i'd work my way down, an hour and a half later i get the wiring loom next to the thermostat out, there it is lodged under the vacuum fitting… How did it get there? thats kinda "up" from where i dropped it… put it back in put the rest back on.. bled the coolant.. Turns out i didn't really need to screw around with that bit, i ended up bleeding from the top nipple.. which i also dropped, Into the fan shroud... but we've got a BMW Store close by so, i bought a 2002 325i bleed nipple which fit perfectly.. ") got lucky with that one..

So what should have been a coolant flush "30 mins max" took 12 Hours over two days.. My wife didn't talk to me for a week ")

Now, i use a magnet next to every bolt that i pull...
 

Last edited by Stoker; 02-14-2014 at 09:09 PM.
  #13  
Old 03-15-2014, 12:56 AM
CORNERS's Avatar
CORNERS
CORNERS is offline
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Geez, what an ordeal. I've done 5-6 R53 clutch jobs and my worst issue so far was a rear main seal that lost its pressure spring and somehow chewed up the seal, requiring removing the transmission a second time to replace the seal again. I also had a clutch slave cylinder go bad once but didn't have any issues bleeding it on the car after building a jig to keep it compressed when doing so.

With all the practice, I can do a clutch job in around 10 hours now...
 
  #14  
Old 05-14-2014, 04:36 PM
DeputyDog1122's Avatar
DeputyDog1122
DeputyDog1122 is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 39
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by spr061
It was nothing to change the clutch, just did my 04
I'm glad to hear that brother!...I think I'll be changing mine this year as well...fingers crossed
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
andrewjg1994
MINI Parts for Sale
20
01-29-2021 07:45 PM
eliseo1981
R56 :: Hatch Talk (2007+)
29
01-28-2021 02:45 PM
Mini Mania
Drivetrain Products
1
09-17-2015 09:27 AM
sprp85
MINI Parts for Sale
4
08-22-2015 06:16 AM
FLYM1N1
MINI Parts for Sale
1
08-16-2015 01:17 PM



Quick Reply: How To "Clutch Change from Hell": How-NOT-To...



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:47 PM.