BMW just issued a cease and desist for almost every design in my CafePress store, including all the owner's badge designs and all designs that had the image of a MINI in them. Previously their guidelines stated the designs could not have the word "MINI" or "MINI Cooper" and could not have the MINI wings logo. So with COOPERation's help we changed some designs to make sure they were in compliance. Now they have decided to change the guidelines to include use of images of MINIs.

It's a shame really, because the designs and Craig's artwork always have been wildly appreciated by the MINI community and those folks are the best advertising (word of mouth) MINI has. I only made a couple dollars per shirt and put that all back into my MINI.

I'm going to try to contact the attorney to see if they will change their mind. I'll make it all available at cost if it means the MINI community can still have the stuff. For those who have shirts with the designs from the store, especially the owner's badge designs, they may be collector's items now.

 

That sux, Jack. Your stuff gets so many positive comments-which leads positive word of mouth to others (including non-MINI owners) concerning MINIs. It would be different if the stuff was negative towards MINI, but I guess the big business juggernaut has to try to stomp on everything. I also guess they're upset that people aren't buying the grille badges that they had on their site for almost 3x the price.

 

Yes, they do have to stomp on all for profit entities using their property otherwise they need to go after none. It's an all or nothing proposition with the these types of laws. Sorry to see it happen, but thats the society we live in now.

 

I could see that if the designs used the MINI wings logo, but they don't. All the stuff is original artwork and even if the likeness of a MINI is used, isn't an artist's work protected? If you make a nice art photo of your MINI does MINI own that too?

 

BMW cannot restrict the use of a picture of a mini. They how ever did copyright and trademark their logo, so the only thing they would ever win in court is if you used the mini Wing logo. Can you imagine, every single mini club across the nation would need to change their logo's and websites. You are in the guidelines of the fair use provision when it comes to a actual picture of the mini and the word mini as long as it doesn't have the wing logo.. If BMW wanted to kill the brand, this is one way of doing it! In reality it is free advertising for them.. I would also imagine that this only applies to online stores. BMW doesnt have the money or the means to go after everyone that has the word mini or a picture of a mini on their clothing..

 

I frequent a motorcycle forum as well. Honda keeps them from even having a calender because they OWN the rights to any picture you take of your Honda motorcycle. Nice huh. That was about 5 years ago. I'm not sure if they ever came to any agreement. Still no site calender though like we have here.

I was pretty surprised to find so many aftermarket type products with a Mini logo.

 

Gotta be a trademark / copyright / IP attorney in the community that would be willing to donate a little time to chat with BMW's people about this general topic and get us some clarity......maybe post a thread in OT with a title like "Any Trademark / Copyright attorneys out there?"

 

Just an FYI that the milwaukee minis received the same letter from BMW for the CafePress merchandise. Our logo doesn't use the wings logo, nor does it have an image of the car.

Check it out for yourself - you be the judge:
http://www.milwaukeeminis.com

Too bad I didn't see this before picking up our 4th mini last week - I agree with commentor number 1 that any profits from the shirt have gone right back into MINI (or, our Club, which provides free membership and events.)

Please keep us posted with details of your fight - we will do the same.
Theresa

 

Yeah.... as much as I love our cars, I'm not loving MINI the Company (aka BMW) quite so much lately.... they market the "community" nature of ownership, and feed off the grassroots MINI love that the clubs create, and emphasize the sporting nature of the cars and promote the fitness of the cars for autocross....

But then they smack down any club who actually calls themselves a "MINI" club... and they won't let the grassroots community share artwork.... and they ask for you to share good autocross results... and then void your warranty because you competed in an autocross....

Oh, yeah... and their parts prices (like other BMWs) require you to bend over so payment can be extracted.

Great cars. Crappy business practices. IMHO.YMMV.

 

This same exact thing happened to me about a couple months ago. I got so pissed, I closed my Cafepress store completely. I mean, ok, I understand to an extent, but the few dollars I actually made vs. the free advertising MINI ultimately gets from the exposure shouldn't make it worth their while.

I had some designs that were probably copyright infringement, and some that were definitely arguable, but when a big company like that sends Cafepress a legal letter, they are going to listen and shut down whatever they are told to.

Sorry they got to you too.

Ken

 

And people have wondered why I refuse to attend or endorse the company sponsored MTTS events...

It's ok to use US for free marketing as long as they control every aspect of it.

 

Well, our EIM CafePress stuff is still untouched (probably because they don't know how to get in contact with someone, or we're so low volume that we're under their radar).

When we created our wings-like logo (see my avtar) we specifically incorporated differences in the wings such as a slightly different shape, different color, addition of pinstripes, etc. for the specific purpose of making it clearly different and avoiding running afoul of these issues.

I can't imagine BMW would waste the time and expense to challenge it. In effect as Kentiki states, we're essentially free advertising for them now.

 

Oh, I can imagine.

They employ lawyers. Who get paid to write letters. Not make rational judgments regarding brand strategy.

 

Don't waste your money going against a luxury car maker in Germany.
How about "Hang the lawyers by their toenails!" thread?

Wonder if they will go after this street rod exhaust company for their logo?

 

Sucks. Community is about the people, not the company, sadly. I hope your legalized designs continue to be popular. I'm not a big fan of current trademark and copyright law, but it is on their side currently. Some countries are more lenient with fan-art, and don't seem to suffer for it; but they don't have amusement parks based on 100 year old cartoon characters with lobbyists who keep extending the copyright deadlines by bribing politicians.

 

Am I missing something. How can the company own the rights of photos you take of your own vehicle? Is it only in a for-profit situation?

I wonder if we have gotten a letter yet...

And I am still trying to figure out what could be wrong with the Milwaukee group's logo...is it because the word MINI is in the club?

 

About a year ago, the same thing happened to a Mustang club. Ford allegedly complained about the use of the image of their cars in a local club calendar and CafePress pulled it off their site.

There was a large backlash and CafePress put the calendar back up.

You can read more about it here: http://boingboing.net/2008/01/25/bla...ng-club-c.html

It seems to be a similar situation. It may be worthwhile to remind CafePress what happened last time.

 

This has come up before for other trademarks.
The company I work for has gone after those that use the company logo and name.
I won't mention the name but I give you a clue: the company is based in Atlanta and they fly jets.

BMW owns the MINI trademark but does not own the mini trademark..
Get it?

The wings are also a trademark but not every design of wings is included.

Parodies and caricatures are typically not included in this type of witch hunt because they are covered under other laws that permit their use.

So case in point an artist can draw a picture of a plane and write part of the name in the picture with part of it out of frame and it is all legal.

Am I mistaken or didn't NAM go through something similar??

Edit: Added picture below because I thought it fit this thread. Maybe this is what we all need to do.

 

Yeah, Ford has been really bad about this recently. Virtually EVERYONE who was making money off of the name "Mustang" or a running pony or anything like that were getting letters saying they either needed to cease and desist or pay royalties.

One of the funniest instances was the rear bumper inserts that a lot of Mustang owners have. Basically, "MUSTANG" is spelled out in big debossed letters on the rear bumper of 1999-2004 Mustangs, so they sold chrome/stainless/sticker letters to fill those spots. So, Ford claimed that selling "MUSTANG" letters was violating their intellectual property rights, so now the companies just sell all the letters individually or as an "assortment" of letters that just happen to have all the right ones.

Pretty funny... but it's unfortunate that this even happens. I see why they have to do it, but it's really a lose-lose for everyone.

 

If they go after them they would have to go after Southwest Airlines, Chrysler, Steak and Shake....the circle with wings design has been used by MANY companies over the years.

 

I have no idea what the copywrite laws are, or if BMW is right or wrong. What I do know is that they have lots of lawyers on retainer who will make it extremely difficult for a small business to prevail in a protracted and expensive legal fight. It's not unusual for these cases to go on for years. Unless they're willing to license the images being used, it's going to be an uphill fight for any mom-and-pop operation.

 

I remember quite a few years ago when the IOC (International Olympic Committee) went after many "Olympic" and "Olympia" diners in the USA, and also tried to ban the diner's use of the Olympic rings. I understand that intellectual property has value, and needs to be protected from unlicensed use, but was any diner really making money by selling Olympic memorabilia? Only in America!

 

This too shall pass.

 

It would be even more effective to turn the emblem upside down.

 

Miniclubman - I was going to kid you about your license plate and how BMW might come after you when I got to thinking about the "Clubman" mens toiletries...not to stir things up but I wonder how that works?

http://www.drugstore.com/popups/larg...=20873&trxp2=1