Not 6-8 hours, normal HPDE, 6 20 minute sessions.

My first open track experience I didn't know about getting the correct pads for track duty. I figure I stop from freeway speeds all the time, I'd be fine. I managed to cook the front pads on my SE-R down to the backing plates in the first 20 minute session. I had to sit out the rest of the day, and it was a long, noisy ride home.

I've had good luck with full OEM systems on an SVT Focus and 350z (w/ Brembo) /370z. I'm sure my RX8 would have been fine too, but I stepped to HP+ on that car for track duty. Big discs on all four cars have a lot of thermal capacity, and have a good mechanical advantage as well. The rotors were scored pretty good on the 370z at the end of the day though, I would do a pad swap if I were to do it again.

I did cook the OEMs on the 200sx and a Firebird Formula, even with Carbotech XP (before they came out with the grades of XP) pads. Those cars have really underspecc'd brakes.

To keep your brakes working well on the track, you should apply them rather digitally. Squeeze them as hard as you can without upsetting the chassis. Minimal dragging / trail braking. This dumps all the heat in at once, and gives maximum time for them to cool before the next braking zone. This way the rotor gets to do it's job of cooling and minimizes how much heat goes into the pad, caliper, and fluid.

Somewhat back on-topic:

Brakes work by turning kinetic energy into heat. There isn't one miracle material that gives the same coefficient of friction at all possible temps - it's closer to a Bell curve that can be shifted by material choice.

On the street, you need a pad that has a good coefficient of friction on snowy -10° mornings and won't break down if you have to come to one panic stop from 70mph on the highway. That's sufficient for 99% of cars.

For spirited canyon work or heavy autocross, you might get more heat in the system than economy pads can handle. You can step up to a higher heat range pad. They cost more and you might give up a little performance when cold.

Track pads make more dust than stopping power on the street, but once up to temp range work great. Putting track pads on for the drive to the track can give you a nice scare if you're not prepared - done that.

Different materials will also give you different initial bite, release characteristics, dust levels, noise, cost, and wear levels (some track pads will wear rotors out before the pad wears out!) Even the rigidity of the backing plate can be a major factor in pedal feel.

In short, brake pads are a huge collection of compromises. What works for one person might not work for you, much in the same way a Dodge Caravan might be perfect for one person, and a Corvette perfect for another.

 

Should be a full front set, a total of 4 pads. They should arrive today.

 

Also 350z as well.

Just like to say I really commend the poster for running stock OEM brakes for open track. I would not dare to do so myself since I know I will fry them and have a bad os moment.

 

Yup.

 

Bulgar, got confused as to your definition of OT. Ours is all day event, usually one or two groups. Come and go as you please,nno real schedule if it is one group.

I can understand traditional HPDE.

I was at SCCA regional finals at WGI last year when a 370z lost their brakes and slammed into the wall. Not much left of th from end but the driver was ok. Car is a complete loss.

 

Wow, never been to a track day like that. I've run a few 30 minute sessions late in "free for all time," and that's really pushing the limits of how long I can concentrate at that level. I would love, love to try Watkins Glen one day.

We're soooo off topic...

 

25 minutes is ideal for me, 30 max--done more than that before, but that's where I draw the line now. After that I'm fading worse than my brakes! But I'm old. So old in fact, I can't remember what the original topic of this thread was...

Nice car BTW. On the 370z, I really want to try that rev matching manual someday, that was a slick innovation for a stock car...

 

Does Carbotech make street pads for the '05-'06 Minis (R50 & 53?)

 

Yes CT1521 bobcats. Check with Dustin at autoxcooper.com. i usually buy my CT pads from him. See if he will give you free shipping.

 

Checking on Carbotech it appears that all the vendors who sold them at any significant kind of discount no loger carry them. $276.00 for a complete set seems way too much for me for street pads.

he next most recommended on this site are the Akebonos. They do seem reasonably priced. What scares me is that a review on TireRack site compares them equally to Hawk ceramic, noting the lack of initial bite. I'm currently running Hawk Ceramics and they are the worst pad that I've ever had the misfortune to use. I think that bars of brown laundry soap would work better. I'm worried that the Akebonos won't be an improvement.

Anyone used both? Any other recommendations for low dust pads?

 

EBC Red Stuff pads!!

 

Akebono Euro Ceramic @ TireRack. Reasonable cost ($72/$57 F/R), low dust, linear relationship between stopping power and pedal pressure, no more initial grabbing.

 

The "best brake pads"...the ones that work best for your needs.

Just like the "best tires".

 

Hate to bring this one back from the dead, but anyone have experience with Carbotech AX6 pads and TSW rotors for fast road/autoX use? I tend to drive rather aggressively and brake late/hard often and generally drive rather aggressively, and I know that switching from 1512 to AX6/XP8/XP12 without turning the rotors first, and if I do a trackday I'm guessing one of the XP compounds would be best. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

If you switch to carbotechs, you're going to have to resurface the rotor. You don't need to turn it, but you're going to at the very least need to sand it with a fine grit sandpaper. Going from a different pad compound to carbotech's, it's tough to lay the Carbotech material on the rotor if you've had another pad on there.

The Carbotech's are good--very easy to modulate, good on the rotors. What I didn't like about them was (at least the XP12's) is I went through them far to quickly, and they are prone to pad deposit. But I track, not autocross.

I switched to Brakeman pads, and so far, I REALLY like them, moreso than the Carbotech's--they last a bit longer, and the rotors look unbelievable. I still may give PF a try at some point, and stick with whichever is better, but right now, I'm really liking the Brakeman stuff.

 

I would be getting new rotors anyway (high-carbon steel Texas Speedwerks units). thanks for the heads-up on Brakeman pads, althoug one of the selling points for me on Carbotech pads was the low dust they create, are Brakeman pads the same way, and would they be acceptable for fast road/occasional track use?

 

I forgot about dusting--the carbotech's are about the best I've had for that. I run black rims on the street, so dusting isn't an issue with me. The Brakeman Track pads, compound #85 are dusty, the street pad really is good though, but I switch pads for street and track. If you're going to put a track pad on and leave it on, the carbotech's will dust less than the Brakeman pads (but it'll still dust considerably--nice thing about carbotechs is it's fairly easy to get the dust off), but if you do that, you're going to run through the pad fairly quickly, and eat up the rotors quickly, and it'll squeal. It'd be cheaper in the long run to get a street pad/track pad combo--If you're going Carbotech, get Bobcat's for the street, which are a very low dust, low squeal pad, then the pad of your choice for the track, you won't have to resurface the rotor with pad switches, the compounds are similar enough not to be an issue. The rears don't really matter. You can put what you want to use on the track on the rears and leave it there, it takes forever to go through rear pads and rotors.

There really isn't a good dual duty pad for the street and track; it's a compromise if you go that route. If I absolutely HAD to make that compromise, I'd probably look at Performance Friction #91 compound--it's very popular in this capacity with the Porsche crowd.

 

EBC Green! stoptastic and way less dust!!

 

thanks for the advice cct1, so a good street/track combo would be 1512 Bobcat up front (for the street) and AX6 for the rear (all the time) and AX6 or XP8 up front for the track? I figure that the braking is biased so heavily to the front from the factory, given how badly the front rims get coated in brake dust relative to the rear, and I wouldn't mind a bit more braking at the rear and short of a rear BBK or futzing with the proportioning valves/ABS system, the only way I can figure to get that more rear braking is a more aggressive pad at the rear

 

Bobcats for the street is a definite yes.

I ran XP12's up front, and XP8's in the rear when I had Carbotech's (this was on R-comps). You want to go down at least one or maybe two notches on the rear pads--the higher number carbotech's work at higher temps; they work relatively poorly at low temps, and the rears don't get nearly as hot as the fronts (at least mine don't, and I've checked it with temperature paint, this is the best way to dial in your pads), so a pad that's considered more "aggressive" may actually stop the rears worse--you're not getting into their temperature range. If you've ever driven a cold car on full track pads you'll know what I mean--the brakes aren't very good until they get some heat in them.

As an added negative, the rotors don't hold up well either to an aggressive pad at low temps.

Some people will even run stock pads on the rear for autocross. I don't have any experience with AX6's, so I'm not sure what you'd want to put on the rears with those. You'd probably get the most aggressive stopping power initially with stock pads, but you may overheat them, so you would want to look for something maybe slightly more aggressive for the rears than stock, but not as aggressive as your front pads.

You'll always have a fair amount of front bias with these cars; there's no getting around it. Eventually I'm going to put a different kit on the rear, but there isn't one out there that I like, but there may be one on the way.

 

Ok, that tells me what I need to know, thanks, plus 1512 rear saves me a few bucks over AX6 rear, which is always a plus. Any rotor suggestions to go with these pads, or is it pretty much whatever strikes my fancy?

 

Rotors are a blank canvas, what ever strikes your fancy. Were you looking for solid faced, or slotted?

 

Everyone has there favorites; my favorite rotors are the freemax one's that Way has, or Powerslots. The freemaxes hold up fantastic, but they're kind of ugly--and they're often out of stock, coming from South America. The Power slots are little more expensive, hold up great as well, and are very nice looking.

Slots or plain are fine, pretty much your pick, I wouldn't do slotted, they can crack between the holes at high temps, unless you want to get the big buck Porsche rotors...

 

I read the entire thread, I bought some hawk ceramic pads this week, and I was searching for the rear ones, to my amusement they don't make rear ones, on your guys opinion which rear pads would match their yellow ceramics?

Thanks,

 

See what?
There is no information on Redstuff testing (searching comes up empty).

The fact that EBC people make unsubstantiated and absurd claims (that their brake pads will reduce stopping distance by ~50 feet) and post a link some company's web site w/out linking the test results means just that ... a pile of BS.