I can't really tell....But i can tell this. The front end doesn't feel connected at all to the road, running over bumps or anything in the road (especially under accel or braking) causes the steering wheel to go wild, and the car doesn't corner like a mini should. Suspension has been checked out by BMW, and nothing is wrong according to them

 

Sometimes you can tell by just kicking the tire.

 

i get the same play in the front tires when i kick them as the guy in the video, but i read the thread, and a lot of people were saying that it's normal?

I have a lot of movement in the front, and none in the rear. I can even move the front tire with my hands, like 1/2 inch to an inch.....

Basically, my car handles like crap. BMW and my suspension tech say that everything looks fine, but i know it isn't

 

Mine need done at only 32,000 miles.
I checked out 3 other MINIs in town and one had a worn passenger side
but normal driver side, and the other two had tight (not worn) on both sides.
So, they're not all like that (at least at first), but I'm sure they'll all get like that
after enough miles and rough roads. The latter two looked younger than my
MINI, however.

This thread covers some discussion on front control arm bushings.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97816

 

I spent the weekend at Texas World Speedway (not to be confused with Texas Motor Speedway, the NASCAR track) which is a combined high banked oval and road course. This is a very fast track overall with mostly wide, on-camber corners and a couple of high speed braking opportunities. The wandering that I had previously experienced with the stock bushings on the front control arms is gone, completely. The front is totally stable and feels great when braking from 110+mph. The tire wear continues to be very even across the fronts and I received more that a few comments from other drivers about how stable my car appears in the corners. Believe me, it feels great. I couldn't be happier with the changes. I put the Alta PSRS in the highly recommended category for anyone that is doing any serious tracking or AutoX, particularly if you have better than stock brakes and tires.

 

Some movement is normal because control arm bushings are intentionally designed to allow fore-and-aft movement (for NVH) while being stiff laterally and vertically. That's why some cars' leading or trailing arm bushings actually have big holes drilled in them, but BMW chose instead to use a fancy fluid-filled one, axially mounted like some old Mustang or Ford pickup truck:impatient. Heidt even has a kit to convert the Mustang strut rod ends to conventional non-binding pivots, and those are only used to locate things longitudinally rather than serving as combination lateral arm and leading arm bushing...

If the play is excessive then the bushing is shot. An inch sounds really bad when you consider how much more it would move under power and braking, but it wouldn't likely be covered under warranty unless you can point out it is actually broken (as in leaking).

 

Hmm, i read that post from Dr. O. When i hit potholes, the bangs make me cringe. Acceleration makes the steering wheel squirm about like crazy, and braking to a lesser degree. Any bumps on the road amplify the above problems hugely. Acceleration over bumps makes me white-knuckled.

Would a worn out pair of bushings make the front end feel very vague, giving me that lack of confidence and skipping of the tires mid corner that i have?

Thanks for the help too

 

sure...but so would a worn tie rods, ball joints or strut bearings...or shocks.

Begin looking at the easiest components to replace;

tie rod ends
outer ball joint
strut bearing
inner ball joint
LCA bushing

In that order. The inner ball joints can be replaced if both axles are removed, so the subframe does not have to come out. Personally, if the inner ball joints are worn, I would suspect the LCA bushings are worn too and replace everything.

Bushings with braket - $49.00 ea - saves a lot of time!
Inner ball joint $47.00 ea
Tie rod $38.00 ea
Outer ball joint...cannot remember, call'm $40.00 ea.

A little less than $400.00 for all of these parts...and droping the subframe is easier than it looks. 6 hours and you are done - then align...the strut bearings unfortunately require strut removal and a spring compressor - easy work...this will add about 45 min a side...less if you have a wall mounted spring compressor.

 

Dear Doctor O ( or others ).
The Problem: going over bumps causes a clunking noise that sounds like mostly on the passenger side.
Before Problem: had M7 springs,17 inch forged wheels,stock sized but not run flat Prada Spec2's, Stoptech, No noise, but floppy front wheels under accel/decel----2006S, 3500miles, Thumper head, Schrick,M7 DFIC,Pully,Unichip,Blue Flame complete
Start of problem: Had Alta PSRS installed along with Alta adjustable
upper and lower control arms. I installed the Webb ultimate rear sway bar set at four marks in. Car aligned @ all zero toe,4.8 caster, front camber -.3 ( no plates), rear -1.7L/-1.3R.

Checked bolts tightening,can't move wheels by hand, put car on lift and compress right side suspension---can't see any problems. Springs on both sides are properly on there perches.

Car's understeer is gone. Great balance---GGGGOOOOO cart.

Is the noise just from the elimination of the stock front bushing .
What else should I check?

Thanks Everyone

 

but here they are....

Control arm bushings (always start with what you changed last). Make sure that there's no way metal to metal contact can occure.

Ball-joints (two per control arm)

Tie-rod end (this would come with some steering issues as well)

Strut pinch bolt (holds strut into steering knuckle)

Sway-bar end-links (these are often the culprit)

Upper strut stuff
Upper spring perch - these crack
Upper strut plate - these bend and crack
Uppers strut bolt - holds all the stuff together!

That's really all that there is. Some other things to check.... Brake caliper mounts (carrier bolts if stock, mounting plate if aftermarket) Sometimes pads thunk in the caliper/carrier as well (my MDX has done that since day one....)

A lot of these will not show any play if they are loaded, so you should jack the bottom of the steering knuckle up when you check for play.

Good luck, and let us know what you find out!

Matt

 

Much thanks Doc.
Gee, it took you 10 minutes to respond .

I'll report the results of the investigation

 

It's a busy sunday and I just figured I'd see what's up on the boards while the wife gets Alison ready to hit the road.....

Matt

 

Great info in this thread. I guess almost all of my questions on this system have been answered. I see these in my future. Thanks for all the info guys. I guess time will tell how long they last compared to stock.

 

Don't discount a CV joint...I've been chasing this type of noise down for a while. I replaced the entire axle with both CV joints last year so I never gave this part a thought. I replaced all tie rods, all ball joints, installed new stock control arm bushings etc about 6 weeks ago in an effort to find the sorece of clunking - the noise continues to get worse. Recently while driving up a hill at about 80mph in sixth gear, the car felt like it was engaging and disengaging power thru the passenger side axle??? I placed the car on jack stands when I arrived home and to my amazment I could spin the wheel/tire along 2-3" of circumference before the axle began to turn. No clicking from the CV joint. This type of failure also caused all sorts of tingly little changes in steering feedback...very unsettled.

Another $500.00 for another axle. This one is easy to change in about 30-45min...a good thing.

 

I had this problem recently in the exact same place - front passenger side.

John at Lucky Dog diagnosed it in about three seconds.

Took him about a minute to fix it.

I have m7 coil overs. Do I understand that you do?

 

So are you going to share? or not. Those of us with M7s might be interested to know of potential problems.
cheers,

 

The point at which the m7 body rests on its perch is secured with a nut/bolt that pinches the m7 bracket piece.

It had simply worked loose.

I had worried about the noise of slight bumps on the way up to LDG, but never mentioned it to John.

After my tune, John - ever the professional - just went around the car while it was on the lift, checked a few things, and found the problem by grabbing the m7 lower body and trying to move it. And move it did. In fact, it was almost completely free to move....

He tightened it up and no more noise since, including two track days over the weekend.

Driver's side was ok.

 

(1) I have gone through Dr. O's check list with both unloaded and loaded
suspension on each side and cannot find anything wrong
(2) I have M7 springs on stock struts
(3) Absolutely no axle to wheel play on either side
(4) Have an appointment next Tuesday to have someone else take a look at
it
(5) Seems to be noisiest at steady state 20-30 MPH over small bumps
( like manhole covers) going straight or turning. It is probably my imagination at this point , but accelerating or braking seems to lessen
the amplitude but does not change the frequency ( clunks per second)
or the sound.
(6) I will not give up:impatient

 

Ah.

I have m7 coilovers. So although the symptoms sound remakarbly similar, there must be a different reason.

Best wishes for speedy resolution!

 

I had the ALTA PSRS's installed at Detroit Tuned last Friday. There had been a lot of play in my front bushings since March, when John at LDG warned me that they were getting sloppy. A week on the Dragon really exascerbated the problem...the car would get really squirrely on hard braking or acceleration and tram-lined something awful on uneven pavement (which Michigan is famous for). It was an all-day install at DT, what with a broken bolt on the driver's side control arm and a mysteriously disappearing brake spring clip (found entangled in the springs of Chad's floorjack) and other frustrating little road blocks. A Hunter alignment ended the whole marathon with seized adjustment nuts. (sigh) Anyway, after getting it all done, I have to say the car feels like it did when I first got it, and then some. Turn-in is improved, lifting on acceleration has been drastically reduced and the car feels real tight. for this mod!!

 

BigDaddy: I agree that the Alta PSRS is a great mod. Perhaps even more
noticable with a lowered car with some added HP& Stoptechs.

hornguys: Some observations. My rattle was not happening after the M7
springs went in. Only after the Alta PSRS was put in. Perhaps
just the shorter springs with the geometry change are causing the
the problem ( and the fact that I don't have M7 coil overs is not
the issue). Having said that I haven't found anything close to
being loose. Those springs are sitting flat in the perches on
both sides. I cannot induce any movement of the springs or
struts :impatient

 

I like what I keep hearing on the PSRS setup from ALTA. Has anyone had these for an extended time?

 

trackertracker,
I once had a similar sound that went away when I re-tightened the top nut on the struts. I now have a sound similar to the one you have and like you, I have tried everything and nothing seems loose at all. Next thing I'll try is new spherical bearings in my 2 year old camber plates.

 

No resolution today. Put the car on the drive on ramp type lift .

(1) retorqued all subframe attachments, motor mounts, strut pinch bolts
and upper strut nuts. removed right bump stop---tested no change.
(2) Put rubber hose over about 45 degrees of spring arc that is coil bound
at static compression---tested, no change.
(3) disconnected and removed the right sway bar drop link---tested,
no change
(4) retorqued ball joints, steering attachments. Wheel hub flange nut
is in original position.

"Testing" here was done by slowly driving down the road with the right
wheel at the road edge/dirt sidewalk joint which causes the clunking noise.
Inner fender removed, outside guy goes along and listens for changes in noise..

I will not give up :impatient .

We cannot cause to noise to occur while on the lift( i.e. full static compression ) when two of us push up on the subframe and then pull down on it in order to replicate the motion of the suspension that causes the noise while driving.

No radial CV to wheel movement is observed. Our next step is to remove the strut and move the suspension by hand to see if we can detect
any slop.

During "testing" neither engine RPM nor clutch engagement causes
any changes to the problem.

At this point we will accept any weird theories or suggestions for testing.

Trackertracker

 

Theory: The noise is detectible during the period of time of little or no acceleration or braking. Further, the noise occurs when the right suspension
encounters small bumps /ripples. Larger suspension displacements do not result in the noise condition. Steering angle has no effect.

What makes the noise stop: (1) not having a bump or ripple or
(2) extending or compressing the spring by acceleration, braking or large bump displacement.

Dynamics: Changes in spring load from static compression changes the gap
between the evil piece and what ever it is interfering with. The change could be a widening ( unlikely) or closure thus causing the noise to stop.

So the answer is : :impatient :impatient