I know my next mod is going to be a rear anti-sway bar. I have 2 questions:
1) Should I go 19mm or 22mm or other?
2) What brand?

I drive 95% of the time to work and back on the street ( do like to go fast, especially around corners). I rarely go on the freeway. The other 5% of the time I drive one of the many canyon roads near my house. I'm thinking 22mm is a little too extreme for my style but I'm worried that 19mm is only 2mm thicker than my stock 17mm on my MCS and I won't notice a difference. I'd like a little oversteer at times.

What brand? I'd like some bushings that can be lubed but those are like $75 more than an Alta. How do you like what you have?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

Get a 22mm with adjustments and adjust to fit you driving stlye. Start with the easiest setting and go up from there.

 

22mm is good if you do not plan to increase negative front camber, such as by adding adjustable front camber plates.
If you plan to add front camber plates, I would suggest a 19mm rear.

 

Stiffness is a function of the diameter raise to the 4th power (read, highly non linear rate of increase). Therefore, that little 2mm difference with the 19mm bar is good for 156% increase in stiffness (due purely to the diameter change). That is significant.

IMO, most people would be just fine with the 19mm bar. I have owned both. The 22mm bar is really not practical beyond the softest setting, anything else is asking for trouble (accidentally lift of the throttle when you're a little too hot in a corner and you won't have to wait very long for the back end to come around on you).

Basically the 19mm bar allows for more of a useable range of adjustment because the bar is a bit softer, you can adjust it more to your driving style (soft to stiff) versus the 22mm bar where most people wind up with it set soft and even then you can get bit by it if you're not on top of things 100% of the time.

IMO, there are a lot of MINIs that are over rear swaybar'd based on the driver's normal driving patterns (street) and ability (little or no formal driver training).

If you want a safe choice that will still improve the handling, go with the 19mm over the 22mm.

My $0.02.

 

I have 19mm H&R on my JCW for about 5 months. It's got 2 adjustment positions. I have it on stiff. The best part is, that it doesn't require lubrication. I was on Buttonwillow track last October – the handling was great.

 

+1

 

I'm running an 22mm alta rear bar, with no greasable bushings. I love it, I have it set on the 'race' setting and couldn't be happier. I'm running a set of M7 springs with stock shocks, and the car handles like it is on rails. Go with the 22mm, otherwise you may be disappointed.

 

Have you used a 19mm before?

 

Had one on a 06 I was driving for about 10,000 miles [all in 4 months!!!]

 

22mm and adjustable endlinks all the way(I have Alta bar and endlinks). Oversteer is fun, lifting the throttle during a turn can induce alot of oversteer on the stiff setting. I recomend highly grippy Ultra-high performance summer tires. That way you get all the benifits of the big bar without oversteer unless you want it. For winter change it to the soft setting and set the end links a bit longer than stock. Remember to take it easy.

Did I mention I love twitchy handling & oversteer, and I consentrate 100% damn near all the time, and definately while going into each turn? For your average driver the 19mm would do ok. But to get a huge "woah, this is one tight handling car" go for the 22mm.

 

Love my Alta 22mm, set on "aggressive" after seeing what the softer setting did.

 

dave wrote, "IMO....The 22mm bar is really not practical beyond the softest setting, anything else is asking for trouble (accidentally lift of the throttle when you're a little too hot in a corner and you won't have to wait very long for the back end to come around on you)."

This is pretty different from my driving experience with a 22mm bar. I found the softest of three setting is about the same as the OEM bar. I like the middle setting, do not believe using it is asking for trouble, and have not experienced trouble. Perhaps I have not let off the gas when entering turns too hot. I find the 3rd (stiffest) setting keeps the car planted to well at street speeds. It is slow and sluggish, however, it is right for some high speed tracks.

 

Dave, thanks very much for this really helpful explanation! I have been looking hard at the Dinan suspension package (which includes a 19mm rear sway) and was a bit worried that I was going to be unhappy down the road. Given that this will be my first time modding any car, I feel much more confident (and likely safe) going with the 19mm.

 

sorry newbee question...
Does adding a larger bar give a stiffer ride or is this only with body roll.
Would a 22mm bar add to a firmer ride over bumps on the street?

 

I have a 19mm H sport and run it daily on the center hole, back it off for long trips, change it to stiffest setting for track. Great bar, rides good, VERY HAPPY! I Think a 22mm would make it to skittish and rough for daily driving. But thats just my 2 cents.

 

No. When both ends depress at the same time, nothing. But in cornering, when the outside depresses, the inside lifts which resists against roll.

It's tricky, but I like how the rear rotates during throttle lift-off. Helps aim the car for the exit better. But it can get outta hand (see sig).

 

I will agree with Dave in post #4.

A 19 mm sway bar offers a good enough range to suit most needs, especially with a street car. The risk of oversteer and significant ride deterioration in a dual purpose car like mine from a larger bar are not worth the trouble. Ask me how I know. I've had a 22mm bar for two years of track and commuter use and I've gone back to the stock bar and starting over this year. Been off the tarmac 3X when I lifted at the wrong time with the 22mm bar. If I replace the stock bar with a thicker one, if........., I'll go with the 19mm bar and work with that one.

Why? It is easier (if not safer) to drive a car fast if you aren't continuously on the ragged edge. That ragged edge is driver dependent. I am at the shallow end of the driver talent pool, I'll admit.

After 3 years of track experience I can see that a number of totally stock MINI's, with stock sway bars and stock ride height, simply kick butt. The main factor is good driver skill. A big sway bar won't help and may detract.

More is not better in this area.

Regards,
John Petrich in Seattle

 

I forgot to comment on ride deterioration with an ultra stiff bar setting.

The old saw is that a sway bar doesn't materially deteriorate ride and helps reduce roll. Almost a free lunch, right? Rubbish. The ride, on the average, is always affected.

In reality, the vast majority of road irregularities are not symmetrical and the sway bar materially increases the effective spring rate in most driving situations. Imagine an asymmetrical bump where only one spring compresses and the sway bar gets twisted to resist that bump. In other words, a stiff sway bar, on the average, does add stiffness to the springs. The car rides as if you had installed stiffer springs. The result is a change in ride, which if carried too far, results in a significant ride deterioration. In the special case of a lane wide speed bump or a gradual undulation across the entire road surface, the sway bar does not add spring stiffness and the ride isn't affected. But, only in that special case.

The bottom line: Big bars and high sway bar rates move your independent suspension closer to a solid axle suspension with the expected deterioration in ride quality.

Regards,
John Petrich in Seattle

 

+1 I have the H&R bar and it is great. Also no squeek.

 

+1

 

19mm... I agree with what others have said about the 19mm, too... It's plenty, and I've gone through a bunch of different suspension setups. All of them were neutral with a 19mm rear bar...

I should say that suspension tuning should first be done with springs and dampers... and that the swaybar should only be for fine tuning.

 

I agree, I'm running a RDR 19MM and its perfect . Middle setting I found to be dead on neutral.

Perhaps if you are building a race car, you might want to consider a 22MM. Search the threads some 22mm owners have reported rubbing problems.

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'm going to go with the 19mm. For me and my style driving I think that will be the best. Now, which one to go with.....?

 

Yes the 19mm is a bit thicker but with the adjustable holes at the ends you can get more or less stiffness.

http://motoringfile.com/2006/07/25/h...ay-bar-review/
http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...-Bar-Rear-19MM
$189.99

For an MCS and street driving then adjustable 19mm is a prudent place to start as you have found out. 22mm adjustable can be used on the softest setting and can be OK, depends on how you drive.

I use 22mm on stiffest setting for street use and I find it OK but I am usually careful how I drive.

For street driving and stock suspension you do not need adjustable endlinks that attach to the ends of your rear or front swaybars. Only those who can adjust ride height will be able to make full use of adjustable endlinks to allow for adjusting the endlink length to remove preloading the swaybar that might affect corner balancing. Some owners will add adjustable endlinks because they feel the stock MINI endlinks are relatively weak but for street use they usually do OK.

 

the ALTA™ 22mm rear sway-bar!