Suspension New M7 coilovers! - review
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5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 892
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From: Charleston, SC
CustomAV
Do you track your car or AutoX at all. If you do when will you be doing this so we can get your impression on how these are on the track. I believe any coilover would make a good first impression if you never upgraded before. I think the crowd really wants to know how these are on the track and AutoX.
Well some people do. I guess I should say I do.
Thanks
Do you track your car or AutoX at all. If you do when will you be doing this so we can get your impression on how these are on the track. I believe any coilover would make a good first impression if you never upgraded before. I think the crowd really wants to know how these are on the track and AutoX.
Well some people do. I guess I should say I do.
Thanks
Who knows, hopefully later in the summer as my schedule is wrapped up until April at least right now...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
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I also think folks should understand the goals and background the seller has. Koni/Truechoice for example have not properly worked out suspension travel challenges with the Mini, and caused some serious difficulty for me while setting my 99 Si - a travel realted problem again. So although Koni may have experience, Truechoice's product mates their dampers to Eibach springs and coilover sleeves. In other words they are mating the experience of two big names whos goals may or may not enhance the final product...from where I sit it does not work.
This is but one example. I would rahter put my money on the experience of folks tracking their cars professionally, and, successfully because I track mine. If I were looking for the best ride, I might look elsewhere.
A name guarantees nothing. txworks and dmh appear to be the folks performing valuable testing in a venue most of us look to. I'm not knocking the M7 system either, but testing tells the truth.
I completely agree with Don, the spring and dampers are the single most important component package - emphasis on package. My current setup has its share of problems and these affect my rythm at the track. I could give a rats a#@ about bling. I care about function.
This is but one example. I would rahter put my money on the experience of folks tracking their cars professionally, and, successfully because I track mine. If I were looking for the best ride, I might look elsewhere.
A name guarantees nothing. txworks and dmh appear to be the folks performing valuable testing in a venue most of us look to. I'm not knocking the M7 system either, but testing tells the truth.
I completely agree with Don, the spring and dampers are the single most important component package - emphasis on package. My current setup has its share of problems and these affect my rythm at the track. I could give a rats a#@ about bling. I care about function.
in the 4 major industries that I work in startups often bring the best new technology and come up with "disruptive technology"
more later...gotta go
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
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I read a lot usually 1 book a week plus periodicals from hell.... business, fiction, non fiction, whatever.....can't remember where I picked this up...
but
"disruptive technology" is when a product category has been selling for say "x" for a given feature set....... someone comes along and through a breakthrough in either technology or delivery to market offers the same and usually better features, benefits, quality, convenience to market etc for a significantly lower price like maybe 50% of "x"..... the offering renders the established vendors a bad time.... they have to meet, beat or die..... generally this leads to shakeouts i.e. "disruption" and the good news for consumers is that a lot of new products at new price points that were unthinkable just months before ...... I'm sure you can think of many such products that changed everything not only for the market but for the existing vendors..... I hope this is a decent definition for you
but
"disruptive technology" is when a product category has been selling for say "x" for a given feature set....... someone comes along and through a breakthrough in either technology or delivery to market offers the same and usually better features, benefits, quality, convenience to market etc for a significantly lower price like maybe 50% of "x"..... the offering renders the established vendors a bad time.... they have to meet, beat or die..... generally this leads to shakeouts i.e. "disruption" and the good news for consumers is that a lot of new products at new price points that were unthinkable just months before ...... I'm sure you can think of many such products that changed everything not only for the market but for the existing vendors..... I hope this is a decent definition for you
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
I read a lot usually 1 book a week plus periodicals from hell.... business, fiction, non fiction, whatever.....can't remember where I picked this up...
but
"disruptive technology" is when a product category has been selling for say $100 for a given feature set....... someone comes along and through a breakthrough in either technology or delivery to market offers the same and usually better features, benefits, quality, convenience to market etc for a significantly lower price like maybe 50%..... the offering renders the established vendors a bad time.... they have to meet, beat or die..... generally this leads to shakeouts i.e. "disruption" and the good news for consumers is that a lot of new products at new price points that were unthinkable just months before ...... I'm sure you can think of many such products that changed everything not only for the market but for the existing vendors..... I hope this is a decent definition for you
but
"disruptive technology" is when a product category has been selling for say $100 for a given feature set....... someone comes along and through a breakthrough in either technology or delivery to market offers the same and usually better features, benefits, quality, convenience to market etc for a significantly lower price like maybe 50%..... the offering renders the established vendors a bad time.... they have to meet, beat or die..... generally this leads to shakeouts i.e. "disruption" and the good news for consumers is that a lot of new products at new price points that were unthinkable just months before ...... I'm sure you can think of many such products that changed everything not only for the market but for the existing vendors..... I hope this is a decent definition for you
2nd Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
This is likely also the case for the Megans. For the average driver and car application this could be ok, but the Mini is an exception on this rule.
The reason why most European coilovers are now using a specially designed front spring is to max. stroke and reduce spring binding.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 2
From: Concord, California
48 hous and NO posts on the M7 coil overs ... wow
Not trying to be rude
(I know when someone says that they are probably getting ready for a biggie)
Why is it that there seems like there are 2 sets of these (Randy has a set) and one set is on a car that the driver does not know what compression and rebound are ???
That feedback is "amazing"...
I dont care if they are green.
Hope these are REALLY great ! I am looking for a suspensing change
but I really want unbiased insightful input.
Not trying to be rude
(I know when someone says that they are probably getting ready for a biggie)
Why is it that there seems like there are 2 sets of these (Randy has a set) and one set is on a car that the driver does not know what compression and rebound are ???
That feedback is "amazing"...
I dont care if they are green.
Hope these are REALLY great ! I am looking for a suspensing change
but I really want unbiased insightful input.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
I have been expecting delivery dates on the product, and wanted to give everyone all the specifics at the same time.
As for customAV having a set, for eval.....simple, he's a regular, average consumer. This will give us an idea what issues the average Joe would have with the set-up. Chris payed for these shocks and have no affiliation with us.
So if he hates them or have a problem with the function of the products we will most likely get valuable feedback to fix or rectify the issues.
I will start a new thread very soon with all the info you are looking for.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
As for customAV having a set, for eval.....simple, he's a regular, average consumer. This will give us an idea what issues the average Joe would have with the set-up. Chris payed for these shocks and have no affiliation with us.
So if he hates them or have a problem with the function of the products we will most likely get valuable feedback to fix or rectify the issues.
I will start a new thread very soon with all the info you are looking for.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, SC
48 hous and NO posts on the M7 coil overs ... wow
Not trying to be rude
(I know when someone says that they are probably getting ready for a biggie)
Why is it that there seems like there are 2 sets of these (Randy has a set) and one set is on a car that the driver does not know what compression and rebound are ???
That feedback is "amazing"...
I dont care if they are green.
Hope these are REALLY great ! I am looking for a suspensing change
but I really want unbiased insightful input.
Not trying to be rude
(I know when someone says that they are probably getting ready for a biggie)
Why is it that there seems like there are 2 sets of these (Randy has a set) and one set is on a car that the driver does not know what compression and rebound are ???
That feedback is "amazing"...
I dont care if they are green.
Hope these are REALLY great ! I am looking for a suspensing change
but I really want unbiased insightful input.
EDITED LINE
Peter wanted real world normal guy in his MINI experience and that's what I think I gave!
I was supposed to do some testing this weekend but got sidetracked with a work project that took way too long to complete and didn't give me the chance to get out there and fiugure it all out.
chris
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 2
From: Concord, California
So what if I don't know the rebound and compression info on these shocks are? I understand what it is in conept with regards to the shock but I do not know the details...
Sorry I'm an idiot in your eyes but if you want to be an *** to me do it in private.
Peter wanted real world normal guy in his MINI experience and that's what I think I gave!
I was supposed to do some testing this weekend but got sidetracked with a work project that took way too long to complete and didn't give me the chance to get out there and fiugure it all out.
chris
Sorry I'm an idiot in your eyes but if you want to be an *** to me do it in private.
Peter wanted real world normal guy in his MINI experience and that's what I think I gave!
I was supposed to do some testing this weekend but got sidetracked with a work project that took way too long to complete and didn't give me the chance to get out there and fiugure it all out.
chris
NO ... NO ... NO
thats is exactly what I DIDN'T want you to think !
Your real world "average guy" is very valuable.
I was asking for more indepth info , and MANY others are asking very indepth questions.
Usually extensive R&D is done BEFORE "average Joe feedback".
It looks like Peter is going to post specifics soon.
I apoligize for any unintended bashing. Just very interested in hard facts.
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 892
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From: Charleston, SC
I understand. Sorry I flew off the handle like that. I am happy to hear you didn't take me for a complete moron
I will be the first to admit that I am not the brightest bulb in the pack when it comes to cars. I realize I don't know many things about different parts of cars but there are certain things I have spent the time to learn and others I am getting to know as I go and Peter at m7, MISFTOY, SpiderX, Dave at DDM and many here on NAm have gotten me a long way. I have no fear of taking any portion of the car apart and tackling any project myself.
Suspension is a new animal for me and the dynamics and physics of it all are just now starting to sink in.
I know how things should feel and it feels good. I have been in many cars with different setups and I know what I don't like and what I do. What I have now I like very much.
I look forward to learning more about the numbers and the science that goes into it so that I can further apply it in the future.
Be patient my friend as Peter will tell us all. I just happen to be a lucky guy who likes to nag and got a set very early to see what they are all about...
they are all that and a bag of chips so to speak.
It's a shame I probably won't be able to drive the car out to AMVIV like I hoped to show off the goodies. If anything changes you will be welcome to take her for a drive and see how she handles for yourself.
chris
I will be the first to admit that I am not the brightest bulb in the pack when it comes to cars. I realize I don't know many things about different parts of cars but there are certain things I have spent the time to learn and others I am getting to know as I go and Peter at m7, MISFTOY, SpiderX, Dave at DDM and many here on NAm have gotten me a long way. I have no fear of taking any portion of the car apart and tackling any project myself.
Suspension is a new animal for me and the dynamics and physics of it all are just now starting to sink in.
I know how things should feel and it feels good. I have been in many cars with different setups and I know what I don't like and what I do. What I have now I like very much.
I look forward to learning more about the numbers and the science that goes into it so that I can further apply it in the future.
Be patient my friend as Peter will tell us all. I just happen to be a lucky guy who likes to nag and got a set very early to see what they are all about...
they are all that and a bag of chips so to speak.
It's a shame I probably won't be able to drive the car out to AMVIV like I hoped to show off the goodies. If anything changes you will be welcome to take her for a drive and see how she handles for yourself.
chris
I dig mine. They've been pretty much everything I hoped thus far. Have your buddy give Waylen of Way Motor Works a call. He's got a couple sets in stock that he needs to get rid of.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
From: Cumming, GA
Mine were a significant upgrade from my Koni Yellows and HSport springs.
Much more ease of adjustability for track or auto-x.
My instructor at a recent BMW CCA HPDE (who brought his track M3 on a trailer) was blown away at what the car could do, and that was just with me driving...
Ride is also better on the street.
Handling is far more predictable.
We don't know about reliability yet, but so far, very good.
Almost forgot - At the last BMW CCA auto-x, I was finally able to beat the one guy who had eluded me. He has a modified M Roadster. First time out with the m7s, I beat him.
Much more ease of adjustability for track or auto-x.
My instructor at a recent BMW CCA HPDE (who brought his track M3 on a trailer) was blown away at what the car could do, and that was just with me driving...
Ride is also better on the street.
Handling is far more predictable.
We don't know about reliability yet, but so far, very good.
Almost forgot - At the last BMW CCA auto-x, I was finally able to beat the one guy who had eluded me. He has a modified M Roadster. First time out with the m7s, I beat him.
Last edited by hornguys; Jun 19, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Thank you for the great review, and congrats on beating "the ellusive"
M-Roadster....
We finally caught up with the back order of the M7 CO's and have tons in stock.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
M-Roadster....
We finally caught up with the back order of the M7 CO's and have tons in stock.
Peter
M7 Tuning
562-608-8123
Last edited by M7; Jun 20, 2007 at 01:13 PM.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
From: Cumming, GA
Just a quick note about various set-ups.
I believe Peter and Randy may recommend the rears to be five clicks stiffer than the fronts.
Because my car is so light in the back (no rear seats, lightweight Braile battery, lightweight wheels/tires, no sunroof) and I have a lot of front negative camber, plus my H-Sport rear sway is on the middle setting, 5 clicks was a bit too ready to step out into snap oversteer (with my car and its mods). I want rotation, but not sudden spins.
At the BMW Performance Driving Center last weekend (1.5 mile high speed auto-x), I finally ended up (after 2 auto-x events and a weekend at the Barber track) at 7 clicks front and 10 rear.
I've found that one click is extremely minimal in its effect, and probably two is the minimum for a difference worth noting.
YMMV. Just thought I'd mention the advantage of their adjustability on site, as well as the ability to tune in the front/rear balance to your car and your driving style.
I believe Peter and Randy may recommend the rears to be five clicks stiffer than the fronts.
Because my car is so light in the back (no rear seats, lightweight Braile battery, lightweight wheels/tires, no sunroof) and I have a lot of front negative camber, plus my H-Sport rear sway is on the middle setting, 5 clicks was a bit too ready to step out into snap oversteer (with my car and its mods). I want rotation, but not sudden spins.
At the BMW Performance Driving Center last weekend (1.5 mile high speed auto-x), I finally ended up (after 2 auto-x events and a weekend at the Barber track) at 7 clicks front and 10 rear.
I've found that one click is extremely minimal in its effect, and probably two is the minimum for a difference worth noting.
YMMV. Just thought I'd mention the advantage of their adjustability on site, as well as the ability to tune in the front/rear balance to your car and your driving style.
2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 126
Likes: 7
From: Michigan - California
My New M7 C0's
Just installed the M7 CO's and Hotchkis camber plates a few weeks ago and WOW! I replaced the Koni Yellows/H-Sports and fixed Ireland plates and definatley an improvment! A great product and a great price! Personally I like finish and the quality is VG if not excellent!
Thanks Peter! I'll let you know the long term aspects and after I corner balance the car!
Chris
BTW..I'll be out for the LA autoshow next week and it would be great if I stop by again or meet and say hi! Hope your doing well!
Thanks Peter! I'll let you know the long term aspects and after I corner balance the car!
Chris
BTW..I'll be out for the LA autoshow next week and it would be great if I stop by again or meet and say hi! Hope your doing well!