Suspension First Track Day
First Track Day
Today I had my very first track day and we are going to repeat it on Sept 30th but now I really want to modify my car and will need some help.
I looked at the suspension modification threads and there is 39 pages of topics, I'll never be able to read all of this before Sept 30th and have the car ready.
Here's what I have so far, 05 MCS c no engine mods, but have PSS9s and 215/45-17 F1 GS-D3 and the track is 1.097 miles long with one 1/4 mile straight and a lot of twisties, it is a SVT Ford event with a lot of Cobras, Contours and Focus but they also accept all other brands, I ended with a group of 2 WRX STi, 02 Firehawk, 02 M3, I chose to start at the back since they were all above 330 hp and I was at 168, but they ended putting me up front because the others were holding me but I felt like I was now holding everybody else, people were all talking about that MINI and couldn't believe it could keep up with these guys but now I think I need to do more because the car was not fast enough for my taste.
I couldn't get a wheel alignment done because everywhere I called I was told they were too busy and I didn't find anyone who could do corner balance.
I had the PSS9 to full stifness.
I used to think mods were a waste since I can't use the full potential on the street without losing my license but with this track now I need to do it.
So what should I do next? sway bar, 19 or 22 mm? I have the front M7 strut bar but didn't install it yet, OBX header missing all the hardware so can't install it yet.
I need an easy to follow list of mods.
We had instructors and got a lot of good tips but they didn't believe I had bever taken a driving course, all I did was to follow the instructor closely and learned from him by taking the curves in the same lane as he did and learned from him and it worked, then I let one of them drive and got a few more tips and practiced all day, 70 miles later, I was at the limit of the car, time for mods.
I looked at the suspension modification threads and there is 39 pages of topics, I'll never be able to read all of this before Sept 30th and have the car ready.
Here's what I have so far, 05 MCS c no engine mods, but have PSS9s and 215/45-17 F1 GS-D3 and the track is 1.097 miles long with one 1/4 mile straight and a lot of twisties, it is a SVT Ford event with a lot of Cobras, Contours and Focus but they also accept all other brands, I ended with a group of 2 WRX STi, 02 Firehawk, 02 M3, I chose to start at the back since they were all above 330 hp and I was at 168, but they ended putting me up front because the others were holding me but I felt like I was now holding everybody else, people were all talking about that MINI and couldn't believe it could keep up with these guys but now I think I need to do more because the car was not fast enough for my taste.
I couldn't get a wheel alignment done because everywhere I called I was told they were too busy and I didn't find anyone who could do corner balance.
I had the PSS9 to full stifness.
I used to think mods were a waste since I can't use the full potential on the street without losing my license but with this track now I need to do it.
So what should I do next? sway bar, 19 or 22 mm? I have the front M7 strut bar but didn't install it yet, OBX header missing all the hardware so can't install it yet.
I need an easy to follow list of mods.
We had instructors and got a lot of good tips but they didn't believe I had bever taken a driving course, all I did was to follow the instructor closely and learned from him by taking the curves in the same lane as he did and learned from him and it worked, then I let one of them drive and got a few more tips and practiced all day, 70 miles later, I was at the limit of the car, time for mods.
Frst step is admitting, you are hooked. I am hitting my 4th track day on monday, since my first last december, and I am hooked.
First off, the different tracks I have been to could dictate fairly different suspension mods. Laguna and Thunderhill were long an sweepy vs. the 1 course at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, very tight and short. You really should decide if you are going to be all track, some Auto X etc., that will help alittle.
I have the H-Sport 22mm rear sway bar and like it so far. It has 3 settings, which is nice. Tight for the short tight courses and middle for others etc. I don't know when I would put it on the loosest setting (if anyone knows, please jump in).
IMO it is harder to get to the car's limits than you think. Happy Track Motoring.
First off, the different tracks I have been to could dictate fairly different suspension mods. Laguna and Thunderhill were long an sweepy vs. the 1 course at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, very tight and short. You really should decide if you are going to be all track, some Auto X etc., that will help alittle.
I have the H-Sport 22mm rear sway bar and like it so far. It has 3 settings, which is nice. Tight for the short tight courses and middle for others etc. I don't know when I would put it on the loosest setting (if anyone knows, please jump in).
IMO it is harder to get to the car's limits than you think. Happy Track Motoring.
Sometimes being at "the limit" is because of driving ability. No offense intended, but unless you're some kind of prodigy there's almost certainly ways to drive faster without seeming at the limit. I'm not very experienced at road racing either but I've found in autocrossing, and my limited road experience that I'm fastest when ultra smooth. The fastest drivers will seem like they're hardly doing anything.
That being said, are you doing just suspension? If so, you need camber. I'd also get a rear bar.
If you're looking for power it's all in how much $ you have. If a little go 15% pulley, intake, exhaust. If a lot, TurboKompressor.
Good Luck.
That being said, are you doing just suspension? If so, you need camber. I'd also get a rear bar.
If you're looking for power it's all in how much $ you have. If a little go 15% pulley, intake, exhaust. If a lot, TurboKompressor.
Good Luck.
I would dial the full stiffness back, especially if the track is bumpy
Mods you can do without cracking the engine:
1. Pulley -I suggest 15% for longevity, not prone to snap belts, under-drive pulley as well
2. intake
3. rear sway bar-H-Sport is good
4. Camber plates
5. By-pass valve fix by detroit-tuned
Mods you can do without cracking the engine:
1. Pulley -I suggest 15% for longevity, not prone to snap belts, under-drive pulley as well
2. intake
3. rear sway bar-H-Sport is good
4. Camber plates
5. By-pass valve fix by detroit-tuned
Welcome to tracking. Our little cars do great on the track.
0 - Get the snap in harness kit from Randy or someone. This will help you stay proerly seated and free your arm muscles to steer and not hold on.
1 - I recomend a 22mm rear sway bar preferably with three adjustments. DO NOT START ON STIIFEST until you have some time on a softer setting and are comfortable with the handeling.
2 -A - Brakes will need help -especially if you get to a faster (bigger) track. I woul get Hawk HPS pads all around and the brass bushing conversion kit at the least. 2-B Next step would be steel lines and better fluid. 2- C Next step after that would be Powerslot slotted Cry rotors. Do at least 2A and do 2B if you can. Hold on 2C until you need it.
3 - Power - In order of value I would say M716% pulley, Webb Intake (HDI), Miltex Cat back exaust, GIAC or other ECU flash. Those are the basic. It becomes less cost effective to go more, but the next round IMO would be 2% crank pulley, bigger injectors, reflash, header, better intercooler.
4 - Handeling - If you realy get hooked you will begin to find our soft bushings and lack of negative camber a hamper. Powerflex or Ireland bushings all around, Ireland fixed caber plates in front and adjustable control arms in rear. Then you can get a real track alignment.
5- Fianlly - A dedicate set of track tires and wheels. I recmeond very light 16x7. Mine are Rota's at 12.8lbs each. Run short tires also to improve gearing - mine are 225x40x16. Some go althe way down to 15" wheels for track. I have Willwood BBK that will firt down to 16 only.
Go luch and have fun.
0 - Get the snap in harness kit from Randy or someone. This will help you stay proerly seated and free your arm muscles to steer and not hold on.
1 - I recomend a 22mm rear sway bar preferably with three adjustments. DO NOT START ON STIIFEST until you have some time on a softer setting and are comfortable with the handeling.
2 -A - Brakes will need help -especially if you get to a faster (bigger) track. I woul get Hawk HPS pads all around and the brass bushing conversion kit at the least. 2-B Next step would be steel lines and better fluid. 2- C Next step after that would be Powerslot slotted Cry rotors. Do at least 2A and do 2B if you can. Hold on 2C until you need it.
3 - Power - In order of value I would say M716% pulley, Webb Intake (HDI), Miltex Cat back exaust, GIAC or other ECU flash. Those are the basic. It becomes less cost effective to go more, but the next round IMO would be 2% crank pulley, bigger injectors, reflash, header, better intercooler.
4 - Handeling - If you realy get hooked you will begin to find our soft bushings and lack of negative camber a hamper. Powerflex or Ireland bushings all around, Ireland fixed caber plates in front and adjustable control arms in rear. Then you can get a real track alignment.
5- Fianlly - A dedicate set of track tires and wheels. I recmeond very light 16x7. Mine are Rota's at 12.8lbs each. Run short tires also to improve gearing - mine are 225x40x16. Some go althe way down to 15" wheels for track. I have Willwood BBK that will firt down to 16 only.
Go luch and have fun.
Thanks for all the replies so far, keep them coming
I have one question about tires, what brand of tires should I use for track only?
I will follow a lot of recommendations that you guys gave me, I don't drive the car as a daily driver, it's only to cruise around once in a while and will do the track day twice a year, I had no idea it was this much fun.
As far as exhaust, I am waiting for Randy's system with the valve and will use my OBX header.
As far as engine mods I still can't make up my mind because there are way too many different opinions out there right now and I have no contact with anyone who as had experience with any mods, all I get is what I read here and so far I'm very tempted to go twin charge but previously I had only M7 Cosworth package in mind and they would cost about the same once installed, that's why I still haven't done anything yet because if I start and decide to go twin charge, most of the stuff I would have done would have to be taken out.
The track where I go is actually a go-kart and motorcycle track and we rent it and there is no rules other than helmet and no passing but they group us so we wouln't need to pass anyway, if I'm held back, they move me up and only 5-6 cars at the time.
Here a link to it, that might give you a better idea on what mods I should need for this place.
http://www.stratotech.ca/
I have one question about tires, what brand of tires should I use for track only?
I will follow a lot of recommendations that you guys gave me, I don't drive the car as a daily driver, it's only to cruise around once in a while and will do the track day twice a year, I had no idea it was this much fun.
As far as exhaust, I am waiting for Randy's system with the valve and will use my OBX header.
As far as engine mods I still can't make up my mind because there are way too many different opinions out there right now and I have no contact with anyone who as had experience with any mods, all I get is what I read here and so far I'm very tempted to go twin charge but previously I had only M7 Cosworth package in mind and they would cost about the same once installed, that's why I still haven't done anything yet because if I start and decide to go twin charge, most of the stuff I would have done would have to be taken out.
The track where I go is actually a go-kart and motorcycle track and we rent it and there is no rules other than helmet and no passing but they group us so we wouln't need to pass anyway, if I'm held back, they move me up and only 5-6 cars at the time.
Here a link to it, that might give you a better idea on what mods I should need for this place.
http://www.stratotech.ca/
Toyo RA1s will last a long time...not the stickiest tire for sure, but better than street rubber. Mount these on nice light wheels and your set. I have black Team Dynamics for track duty. I like black because the brake dust will not show up. Tires, 19lbs each in 205/40/17, TD Pro Race 1 16.2 lbs each in 17"x7".
The 205/40/17 is slightly smaller in circumference so you'll get a gearing advantage too...worth an engine mod I wiould bet.
The 205/40/17 is slightly smaller in circumference so you'll get a gearing advantage too...worth an engine mod I wiould bet.
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Originally Posted by meb
Toyo RA1s will last a long time...not the stickiest tire for sure.....
I agree with meb on the tire choice 100%, but I would just add that you should get them shaved 4/32.
Originally Posted by onasled
I might disagree. Yes, maybe not as sticky as Hoosiers, but very close. Though I understand that you are most likely talking about unshaved. Shaved they are quite sticky.
I agree with meb on the tire choice 100%, but I would just add that you should get them shaved 4/32.
I agree with meb on the tire choice 100%, but I would just add that you should get them shaved 4/32.
Shaving helps these last longer too...sounds almost dirty
After 1 day at the track, I doubt you need any changes to the car except perhaps brake pads and fluid. There's a lot more speed in the car than you think. Spend your money on more track time for now. I would look into BMW CCA events.
Originally Posted by techno99
After 1 day at the track, I doubt you need any changes to the car except perhaps brake pads and fluid. There's a lot more speed in the car than you think. Spend your money on more track time for now. I would look into BMW CCA events.
Originally Posted by kenchan
humm.... beating cobras and WRX's...
i'd just get a AMS Evo8 and call it a day.
i'd just get a AMS Evo8 and call it a day.

Originally Posted by Wesport
Welcome to tracking. Our little cars do great on the track.
0 - Get the snap in harness kit from Randy or someone. This will help you stay proerly seated and free your arm muscles to steer and not hold on.
1 - I recomend a 22mm rear sway bar preferably with three adjustments. DO NOT START ON STIIFEST until you have some time on a softer setting and are comfortable with the handeling.
2 -A - Brakes will need help -especially if you get to a faster (bigger) track. I woul get Hawk HPS pads all around and the brass bushing conversion kit at the least. 2-B Next step would be steel lines and better fluid. 2- C Next step after that would be Powerslot slotted Cry rotors. Do at least 2A and do 2B if you can. Hold on 2C until you need it.
3 - Power - In order of value I would say M716% pulley, Webb Intake (HDI), Miltex Cat back exaust, GIAC or other ECU flash. Those are the basic. It becomes less cost effective to go more, but the next round IMO would be 2% crank pulley, bigger injectors, reflash, header, better intercooler.
4 - Handeling - If you realy get hooked you will begin to find our soft bushings and lack of negative camber a hamper. Powerflex or Ireland bushings all around, Ireland fixed caber plates in front and adjustable control arms in rear. Then you can get a real track alignment.
5- Fianlly - A dedicate set of track tires and wheels. I recmeond very light 16x7. Mine are Rota's at 12.8lbs each. Run short tires also to improve gearing - mine are 225x40x16. Some go althe way down to 15" wheels for track. I have Willwood BBK that will firt down to 16 only.
Go luch and have fun.
0 - Get the snap in harness kit from Randy or someone. This will help you stay proerly seated and free your arm muscles to steer and not hold on.
1 - I recomend a 22mm rear sway bar preferably with three adjustments. DO NOT START ON STIIFEST until you have some time on a softer setting and are comfortable with the handeling.
2 -A - Brakes will need help -especially if you get to a faster (bigger) track. I woul get Hawk HPS pads all around and the brass bushing conversion kit at the least. 2-B Next step would be steel lines and better fluid. 2- C Next step after that would be Powerslot slotted Cry rotors. Do at least 2A and do 2B if you can. Hold on 2C until you need it.
3 - Power - In order of value I would say M716% pulley, Webb Intake (HDI), Miltex Cat back exaust, GIAC or other ECU flash. Those are the basic. It becomes less cost effective to go more, but the next round IMO would be 2% crank pulley, bigger injectors, reflash, header, better intercooler.
4 - Handeling - If you realy get hooked you will begin to find our soft bushings and lack of negative camber a hamper. Powerflex or Ireland bushings all around, Ireland fixed caber plates in front and adjustable control arms in rear. Then you can get a real track alignment.
5- Fianlly - A dedicate set of track tires and wheels. I recmeond very light 16x7. Mine are Rota's at 12.8lbs each. Run short tires also to improve gearing - mine are 225x40x16. Some go althe way down to 15" wheels for track. I have Willwood BBK that will firt down to 16 only.
Go luch and have fun.
I forgot to mention, I'm planing on attending a full race course during the winter, maybe Dandurand or something like it, I used to drag race my ZR1 but got really bored of drag racing, wait for hours for a 12 second rush, the MINI on track was a lot more fun.
I'm thinking of adding the M7 under strut reinforcement because I have a convertible, then camber plates, 22 mm sway bar, wheel and tires will have to be very light, right now my 17's are 45 lbs. for the wheel and tire.
The harness suggestion was a very good one, I do recall hanging on on a couple of turns and not really focussing on my driving as much as trying to stay in my seat, not very relaxing.
I'll follow your directions on most tips you gave me, including brakes.
Thanks
Originally Posted by zrwon
I tried BMW Event but they are booked for 4 years and it's 180 miles away.
Originally Posted by bluesmini
i can go through a set of RA-1's in a weekend.
...in a race or DE event? With a proper set-up - the right camber - you should get about 20 - 30 cycles out of these. I've been to Lime Rock three times with mine, actually drove one hour to the track and an hour back each time...still plenty of meat on the tire.
I found some 16" Rotas on eBay for around $425, and are fully polished, as far as tires, I looked on Tire Rack and found no listing for 225/40-16 but only 3 listings for 225/45-16.
Try edgeracing http://edgeracing.com for tires. Tire rack does not have them. They have Falken 512 and Toyo T1R (what I have). In stock. If you get the Rota's - shop carfully and you can find hubcentric ones (56.1mm hub) - this is what I have and they do not need centering rings. I am an old school races and do not believe in centereing rings on the track although many have never had an issue.
Good luck
Wes
Try edgeracing http://edgeracing.com for tires. Tire rack does not have them. They have Falken 512 and Toyo T1R (what I have). In stock. If you get the Rota's - shop carfully and you can find hubcentric ones (56.1mm hub) - this is what I have and they do not need centering rings. I am an old school races and do not believe in centereing rings on the track although many have never had an issue.
Good luck
Wes
1) Schroth Harnesses QuickFit Pro Belts
2) dedicated wheels and rubber for the track (and all the tools you need for a swap)
3) adjustable rear sway bar
4) 15 - 20 events to really learn the car
2) dedicated wheels and rubber for the track (and all the tools you need for a swap)
3) adjustable rear sway bar
4) 15 - 20 events to really learn the car
Keep hitting the track and dont worry too much about tweeking the car.
Seat time will make you MUCH faster than any mod you can list.
As far as the schroth harness is concerned. I saw a little ditty about some people using them at the track and hitting a wall. Belts stretched and without the sub strap both the pass and driver went under the belts and messed up their knees pretty bad.
If you run the harness' use your stock belt too.
Seat time will make you MUCH faster than any mod you can list.
As far as the schroth harness is concerned. I saw a little ditty about some people using them at the track and hitting a wall. Belts stretched and without the sub strap both the pass and driver went under the belts and messed up their knees pretty bad.
If you run the harness' use your stock belt too.
No reason to switch to R-compounds until you can get all you can out of your street tires. When you can consistently drive at the limit on your street tires and are passing cars running on R-compounds then it's time to switch. In the long run, you'll be a better driver.
Originally Posted by techno99
No reason to switch to R-compounds until you can get all you can out of your street tires. When you can consistently drive at the limit on your street tires and are passing cars running on R-compounds then it's time to switch. In the long run, you'll be a better driver.
R-compounds do not give much warning when they breakaway. I knew I was in trouble when I smoked the S-03's off my S2000 in 2 sessions at the track. I knew the time had come to step up...of course then I sold the car, got the Caddy and now Im onto a Mini.
This warrants more comment...
Originally Posted by silver99
As far as the schroth harness is concerned. I saw a little ditty about some people using them at the track and hitting a wall. Belts stretched and without the sub strap both the pass and driver went under the belts and messed up their knees pretty bad.
If you run the harness' use your stock belt too.
If you run the harness' use your stock belt too.


