Tony,

Well put. I was being a bit dramatic. Actual rattling would indicate wear. If they do start to rattle, I'll change them out.

At the present time, the heim joints on MINI are not a primary source of rattles, but do transmit low frequecy noise, clunking, from any significant road irregularity into the passenger cabin. There is no higher frequency rattling either on the road or by direct manipulation of the link while MINI is up on jack stands. For many of the joints, they have over 20,000 miles on them over 4 years. I'm satisfied with the lack of apparent wear.

Once, had a pair of front sway bar links on my old Jaguar XKE that did wear and were a source of primary rattle and I know what you mean.

Enjoy the Summer,
John Petrich in Seattle

 

that had shot joints. Only bad eBay purchase on the Mini so far. I just got new joints from Jeff at Alta and good as new (and still cheaper than new).

In my friends race only mustangs, the suspensions is noisy noisy noisy! As you go from the soft rubber into poly to teflon lined heim to full metal heim, that's just the way of the world. And listening to the cacaphony of noises on a track like Sears Point is truely amazing.

Tony, if all this is looking like too much of a hassle, just wipe them off every now and then and keep a few spares around for when they do exhibit play.

Bu this is just the nature of the beast. And yet another demostration of why street cars have stuff on them that isn't best for handling. It lasts, and doesn't make noise.

Matt

 

The better quality heim joints (rod ends) come with teflon liners that act as a permanent lubricant. Spraying the dirt out of them with brake clean (or something similar) isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure how necessary it is.

If they rattle, its usually because of the joint rotating and taping on something. Putting a o-ring or garden hose washer usually solves the problem. Anthony Woodford Racing (Mazda race shop) sells their sway bar end links with o-rings for exactly this reason.

The O-ring or garden hose washer can also be used to "seal" one side of the joint. For example, if it's wedged between the rod end and the sway bar.

 

John, thanks much for the clarification. Good to hear! I too have been quite happy with mine... the reason for this thread... just to keep it that way . The input has been quite helpful.

Matt, esp given what John has shared about the longevity of his, under harsher track conditions, I'm feeling that an occassional wipe-down will be the plan, or more accurately, continue to be... Personally, I don't mind the little shakes, rattles and additional noise that I sometimes get. Sort of gives her some personality as I can predict the grunts and groans I do have a ridiculous dash rattle that I need remedy though! Maybe this weekend...

Mitch, thanks for chiming-in. The arms I have from Alta are indeed teflon-lined:



I love the o-ring or garden hose washer idea! They are cheap, and I actually have a few in my plumbing tool box... I don't feel that I'm gettin noise due to this, but I will inspect them to see via full-range movemet, and look for obvious impact or wear... Good stuff! I was asked if anyone put a video camera under their car to see the suspension at work, but got no response... I think it would be very cool to do so! With a straight-exit exhaust system, I have tons of room where the mufflers once were. Since I have no such video camera, and experience with one, it remains simply a novel idea...

As far as using the o-ring/washer as a seal, like on the sway bar to end-link, I love the idea, but would want to make sure that it doesn't limit travel also...

 

You're welcome! Glad I could help.

Here's how I've found the clicking noises in the past:

1. Jack the car up and put on jack stands (you may only have to do the front or rear if you know where the sound is coming from)
2. Put the jack under on of the lower suspension arms and jack it up slowly.
3. While your jacking, try twisting the heim joint in question. Eventually you'll reach a point where it will free up (or at least it should!)
4. Twist the heim join side to side and hear if it makes the clicking noise you're trying to find. You can also check if the joint has worn and has too much play in it.

 

Thanks Mitch, I will give that a shot this weekend.

One thing I did notice a couple weeks back... With the rear of my MCS on jack stands (at the jack points), when I put light pressure on a lug nut to tighten it a little before lowering, I got a noise somewhere in the "assembly", and it's been on my list to explore that further, but have not. The other side did not make that sound.

 

I have adjustable rear lower control arms on my M3 which have rod ends at the inner ends protected with Seals-Its. They've only been on the car for a few months, so durability is an unknown at this point.

I have to assume - OK, make that hope! - that the Seals-It guys are smart enough to use materials that don't degrade rapidly. In the M3's case they're not in a place where they'll get very hot, so I don't see why they wouldn't last.

I'm not much persuaded by the argument about dirt getting inside and being trapped, at least on condition that the rod end isn't working at high enough misaligment that the seal might possibly lift off at one edge. In fact I'm not even sure that'd be possible in practice except with a high misalignment rod end design.

Just about all rod ends used in car performance parts have Teflon races. The race is the part between the ball and the outer ring of the rod end and may not be all that visible. It's the dark ring here: http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merc...a_cnc3_750.jpg

However dirt and crud still get in there and eventually destroy the bearing if it's unsealed. At least that's what I've found over the years with heim-jointed swaybar links, which wear out and make knocking noises. Fortunately they're not expensive and can simply be replaced.

There are other kinds of sealed rod ends. The M3 stock front swaybar links have molded condoms, but obviously this is for a single purpose design.

Back to the Seals-Its, there is one thing to be careful of. They have an appreciable thickness, so if they're used in an application with spacers like this: http://www.altaminiperformance.com/A...trol_arm02.jpg then the spacer length has to be adjusted to compensate.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

Neil, good point on the Seals-it and spacers, such as the Altas that I have... I didn't realize that the M3 front sway bar links have those enclosures, stock. That would be nice to have... I don't see the teflon race in the Alta's, but as you said, they might not be visible... Thank you Neil.

 

Just to follow-up, I was able to find a few dry lube options, and went with one at The Home Depot ($4.24). Here is what the can looks like:



http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop...ialty/l512.htm

and some data on it:

http://www.gunk.ca/prodsht-en/L512C.pdf

I just got done applying this stuff, after cleaning the joints first, and it's pretty neat stuff! And as Michael (meb) said, bicycle shops have much of this type of stuff, just a bit more expensive, from what I noticed...

Thanks again!

 

^^ cool! i'll look for it next time I'm at HomeDepot.

 

bringing back and old thread from the dead... Thank you for helping me with my suspension meb. I get the feeling that maybe you have the sellers remorse... I'm sorry but I will say it's changed my car entirely.

so I went on a quest yesterday to stop the rattles. They are gone... for now at least. I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but I found something that will at least work.

The source of my rattle is the heim joints actually moving back and forth and tapping when they switch direction or swivel if you will. I found these at Lowe's in the plumbing section.


Here you can see them installed. I forgot to snap pictures as I was putting it back together. However I used 3 on each side of the heim joint sleeve. I also greased the heims with Mobil1 Synthetic grease per Meb's suggestion. In my head I tossed around the idea of a dry lubricant but based on some wisdom gained from friends decided against it.



These o-rings have subsided the noise. they are clearly a wear item so they will have to change. In a perfect world I would have found something my like nylon re-inforced rubber so that they would be not only stiffer but wear better. I think these do well because they don't interfere with the action of the arms and at the same time pad the heims from shaking back and forth.

I should add that the IE control arms do not have aurora ball ends. Ie they are not teflon lined. however I have experience installing and riding in a car with the teflon lined joints and they make relatively the same noises... many people tell me they don't... however my own two ears tell me different.

 

Interested to hear about the o-ring solution, since my heim joint'd control arms have been making clunky noises since practically day one. And they don't seem to have any play in them yet. Greasing them solved the noise for a few days but they're back and as loud as ever.

Question - when I do end up needing to replace, where can I get some poly replacement joints? If heims end up only lasting a year or so (lotsa miles), I think I'll need to go 'less extreme.'

 

If i replacede these heims i would do so with aurora ball ends... purchased through pegasus. Very expensive but a big improvement over typical heims. I don't know of a poly solution that will just thread onto these control arms. This seems to have quieted them down for now... and I drove through some heavy downpour yesterday... not a sound out of them once they dried this morning.

 

Hmm. Are those the helix arms? That's what I have. Was hoping something would thread on. Thx anyways.

 

ireland engineering.

 

No, not really seller's remorse...just sort of moving on to something else. But these arms definately work!!! I'm waiting for a well maintained used Mini S to come my way with fairly high mileage...a tear down for a track car.

I've been renting a Spec Racer in an effort to keep in the game. Although these are crude, they work very well on a track...a real blast actually!

I'm glad these arms are working well for you. The difference when I installed these was sobering. Creative solution to the noise.