im just a kid at heart. my wife says i look like my son when im
playing with my car.

 

bump...

 

Sid,

• Before corner balancing you need to level the car. Did you do this?
• Did you disconnect one front and one rear droplink? Are they adjustable?
• Did you by chance have them loosen and retighten the trailing arm bushing bolts? (I understand that this 'may' be different in post 03 cars)
• Was your weight in the car when balancing it? (I know you were asked this but I forgot the answer)

In talking with meb, I know these Megans have some weird spring height adjustments. I don't know that they are a good design and they may really screw up balancing the way I see it. Interesting that meb, with Megans also, has also had setup issues. I think that secondary adjuster may be the culprit.

 

lol guys, i'm so happy that my thread is taking off, but one thing, none of my questions have been answered. So i'm gonna assume there is no answer, and ask something else.

Can you tell me what corner balancing is/does.
Effect of changing toe/camber and what the (+/-) signs represent.

 

Looks to me that your questions were answered in good detail throughout this thread. Just re-read it maybe and if you still have specific questions then do ask.
Corner balancing is when you put the car on four scales, one under each tire. The goal it to try and get the car balanced, very huch like trying to balance a four legged chair that has uneven legs so it doesn't rock. You must have adjustable coilovers and some other parts to do this.
Instead of cutting one leg shorter and shoving a book of matches on the opposing leg of a chair to keep it from rocking, on a car you raise and lower your spring heights.

Camber.
+ camber means the top of your tire is sticking out further then the bottom. You would only do this on a race track that was an oval, or like Lime Rock that has only on left hand turn (depending on your car), and that would be the right side tires at that point.
- camber is the opposite and is what most cars do best with. It means that the top of the tire is not as far out as the bottom. Just think about how you might run fast around a tight corner. Your feet would automatically go into a extreme camber, the outside foot would be - camber and the inside foot would be + camber.

Toe.
Toe 'In is - toe and toe 'Out' is + toe (do I have that right guys?)

 

Yes, Greg, you're right if I can recall my day at the alignment shop correctly.
cheers,

 

guys you have it backwards! negative toe is toe out.

gandini - you say crap about my settings and you don't even know the
fundamentals. shame on you.

 

• Before corner balancing you need to level the car. Did you do this?

Yes...it was placed on a level alignment lift

• Did you disconnect one front and one rear droplink? Are they adjustable?

No...I thought they would've known that before me

• Did you by chance have them loosen and retighten the trailing arm bushing bolts? (I understand that this 'may' be different in post 03 cars)

Yes...they did that the last time they aligned the rear

• Was your weight in the car when balancing it? (I know you were asked this but I forgot the answer)

Yes...

 

did you eat a large burrito before the routine?

 

A foot long sub

I wish someone had mentioned the drop link before I went...:impatient

 

This time Ken gets it right! Of course, I said "if I remember correctly" which it would seem, I didn't. Sue me... ha ha.

as always, cheers

 

I recall (but I could be mis-remembering!) this was discussed in the very long thread started by meb concerning his Megan coil overs. I think it was even onasled who gave the argument for adjustable drop links and the need to let them "sit free" before balancing.

Still, meb suggests you have to spend hundreds of dollars on alignments to get it right, so you've made a good start, MSFITOY.

 

It's Michael's fault, send him the bill....

So, Sid, they did then level the car out by adjusting all the springs before they put it on scales, yes?
And yea, having those links still on would have given false readings on the scales.

 

I did level my springs the best I could but I think they started chasing the numbers and didn't pay attention to the height of the car (I was sweating in my Mini 10 feet off the ground) :impatient I don't think they have the experience to do this for me...at least not with me a guinie pig...

I think I'm better off with my own set of RuggleS'cale...

 

you really are an ****!!!

if you remember correctly you still are a novice at sus tuning
even more so than me.

 

you're too dangerous to post stuff... 'if i remember correctly'
now 'i could be mis-remembering'

find out the facts first, then post. all this 'probably' info is confusing people.

 

thanks for the reply.

My problem is that the stuff talked about in this thread is too complicated for me to understand. What i basically understand is that the camber settings are a comprimise of some sort. Am i to understand that the more negative camber, the better it is at tight corners but less so at high speed? Also what is the tire wear like with different camber settings? Does a very negative camber make the high speed stability bad? What should i set my camber to?

Also, what exactly is Toe?

 

"The toe angle identifies the exact direction the tires are pointed compared to the centerline of the vehicle when viewed from directly above. Toe is expressed in either degrees or fractions-of-an-inch, and an axle is said to have positive toe-in when imaginary lines running through the centerlines of the tires intersect in front of the vehicle and have negative toe-out when they diverge. The toe setting is typically used to help compensate for the suspension bushings compliance to enhance tire wear. Toe can also be used to adjust vehicle handling."
-------------
Toe therefore is the angle of the tires in relation to pointing straight ahead.
Normal MINI front wheel toe angle is set to 0 degrees 18' plus or minus 5'.
Front camber -30' (or -0.30) plus or minus 25'. Rear toe angle is 0 degree 24' plus or minus 8'. Rear camber is -1 degree 32' plus or minus 30' (or from -1.02 to -1.62).

For best street driving and safety just set the alignment to factory specs- alignment shops have this setting. This allows for the safest compromise in handling, tire wear, and responsiveness in normal street driving conditions.

In fact all alignment settings are a compromise.
Stock camber settings allow for good street tire wear and handling with comfort.
Increased negative camber allows for better handling of tight corners such as for autocross but isn't as good for hard braking and accelerating such as on a long track. If you do only street driving you don't need that much negative camber. More negative camber will wear the inside edges of your tires out faster, especially in front.

Many of us use fairly aggressive alignment settings used for autocross and run our MINIs on the street for daily driving. Naturally the ride quality is quite rough compared to a stock MINI but bearable for smooth roads and with 50 or 55 series street tires.

Some owners adjust and switch settings from track use to street use but changing camber will also affect toe settings so unless you want to do alot of adjustments each time, it might be easier to just pick one setting (always a compromise) and use it for everything from track to autocross to street use. Those with adjustable coilovers can change dampening settings for slightly softer vs firmer shocks. The level of adjustment varies with each brand of coilover.

If after reading the tirerack techpage on alignment you still have questions then talk to Alex@tirerack.com and he can explain it all to you in more detail as it relates to the MINI.

You could also talk to Eric at Helix13.com, Randy at M7, or Randy Webb at Webbmotorsports.com.

 

no need mate, that was a perfect answer....thanks very much.

I think i'll leave them at the stock camber/toe settings, and maybe later on down the line i'll muck around with the camber/toe settings.

Thanks again!!!

By the way, i had some recommend a whiteline 20mm adjustable rear swaybar, saying that a 22mm adjustable was overkill. I know a lot of people that run a 22mm. Do you guys think that 22mm is overkill?

 

If you haven't done it already you should have your settings checked at a performance shop. I did and mine were off in random directions. Adjusting to stock settings improved handling quite a bit. Adjustments are all about setting the car up for what you want to do with it. A 22mm rear anti-sway bar might be fine for Autocross. I think it is overkill for backroads driving. I am happy with my 19mm.

 

ok cool, thanks for that....

 

to throw a little extra confusion .. Has anyone tried to make this a Front Steer car yet for track duty.

 

Using stock alignment and getting more experience and instruction in driving school is a smart approach. Probably you can do very well just learning how to drive smoother and just get used to your MINI the way it is. Each time you upgrade suspension and or change alignment you'll need to relearn how to make adjustments to get the most out of the change.

Any stiffer than stock rear sway bar will help some to reduce understeer up to a point. Too stiff is not going to be of much help and certainly street driving doesn't require very stiff settings. For any adjustable bar (has multiple holes at the end of the bar), start with the softest setting and see how your MINI handles first.

22mm doesn't have to be overkill (use the soft setting- the hole at the end or tip of the bar)- depends how you drive and how fast you go. I have a 22mm rear bar on stiffest setting and use it for street driving without any problems. For street use the 19 or 20mm bar will work.

 

 

ok i'll keep the alignment all stock in that case. I've already planned on getting some proper driving lessons down the line.

Basically i wanna kill that understeer that MINI's have, but i don't want it to be so stiff that if i lift off during a bend, it'll kill me . Will the softest setting allow me to induce some light oversteer using the throttle mid-corner?