Suspension Alta Pro Performance Springs
Alta Pro Performance Springs
I already have some dropzone springs, but they....well, I was ready for a change. I just bought some Alta Pro performance springs. They are the light blue ones. Does any body know what the drop of them is? Also who ever has them, do you like them? Some pros and cons would be nice. 
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: hOUSTON, TEXAS / born and raise in Alabama
QWERTMONKEY, have you install those Alta Pro Performance Spring yet? If so, how do you like them. I just purchased some used ones and have not installed them yet. How much did they lower you Mini? Are they much stiffer than stock? I got them real cheap and want to find some information about them before installing them.
Lamar
Lamar
I have installed them. I am pretty satisfied with them. The ride is firm, yet comfortable. Not enough drop for my taste, but noticable to me. I bought em new, and it was well worth it. I'd install em and if you dont like em, its only time after all!
Vendor - 15 Years
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,932
Likes: 39
From: Knoxville TN
....they stopped making these springs about a year or so ago...you may have bought a set that was old inventory.....good springs though. I have a set on my car and really like them!!
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Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
If people could give us an example how others measure rates, we would be more than happy to tell the rates.
But the problem is they can't be measured at free height, as our springs have dead coils. We measure springs, and test rates at the ride height while the suspension is lowered.
Most other spring manufactures just measure them at free height, or at some made up height that doesn't represent the correct rate. With all these variences someones spring could be featured as it being stiffer than another, when it isn't.
But, if there is a height they all measure by, we would be more than happy to divuldge the mystery.
Out motoring is right, we don't make them anymore, but we as all of our dealers carry the H&R springs and coilovers which are a little higher than ours by .1".
But the problem is they can't be measured at free height, as our springs have dead coils. We measure springs, and test rates at the ride height while the suspension is lowered.
Most other spring manufactures just measure them at free height, or at some made up height that doesn't represent the correct rate. With all these variences someones spring could be featured as it being stiffer than another, when it isn't.
But, if there is a height they all measure by, we would be more than happy to divuldge the mystery.
Out motoring is right, we don't make them anymore, but we as all of our dealers carry the H&R springs and coilovers which are a little higher than ours by .1".
initial rate ______ lbs/in (average)
full rate _____ lbs/in at full bump or compression of damper stroke
(off damper ofcourse)
full rate _____ lbs/in at full bump or compression of damper stroke
(off damper ofcourse)
Trending Topics
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
Spring Constant Dependencies 
For the springs in this discussion, Hooke's Law is typically assumed to hold,
We can expand the spring constant k as a function of the material properties of the spring. Doing so and solving for the spring displacement gives,
where G is the material shear modulus, na is the number of active coils, and D and d are defined in the drawing. The number of active coils is equal to the total number of coils nt minus the number of end coils n* that do not help carry the load,
The value for n* depends on the ends of the spring. See the following illustration for different n* values:
[SIZE=+0]Geometrical Factors[/SIZE] The spring index, C, can be used to express the deflection,
The useful range for C is about 4 to 12, with an optimum value of approximately 9. The wire diameter, d, should conform to a standard size if at all possible.
The active wire length La can also be used to form an expression for the deflection,
[SIZE=+0]Shear Stress in the Spring[/SIZE] The maximum shear stress [FONT=symbol]t[/FONT]max in a helical spring occurs on the inner face of the spring coils and is equal to,
where W is the Wahl Correction Factor which accounts for shear stress resulting from spring curvature,
For the springs in this discussion, Hooke's Law is typically assumed to hold, We can expand the spring constant k as a function of the material properties of the spring. Doing so and solving for the spring displacement gives,
The value for n* depends on the ends of the spring. See the following illustration for different n* values:
The spring index, C, can be used to express the deflection, The useful range for C is about 4 to 12, with an optimum value of approximately 9. The wire diameter, d, should conform to a standard size if at all possible.
The active wire length La can also be used to form an expression for the deflection,
The maximum shear stress [FONT=symbol]t[/FONT]max in a helical spring occurs on the inner face of the spring coils and is equal to, where W is the Wahl Correction Factor which accounts for shear stress resulting from spring curvature,
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Initial rate is not a good one to compare. Our springs, as do others, have dead coils that are designed to touch when at normal ride height. This makes the initial rate very weak and not representative of the rest of the spring.
Ride height meaurement is not something anyone has agreed one. We can just simply say at 5" its this, but others don't divuldge that info. if they do we could compare apples to apples.
And since we don't sell our springs anymore, just the H&R ones, i will try to get the H&R rates to compare. But i think most manufactures will not tell you this info as this is somewhat secret and is what make all springs different.
We are here to help, and i think if others can get this info on the other springs, we could create a very good comparo.
Ride height meaurement is not something anyone has agreed one. We can just simply say at 5" its this, but others don't divuldge that info. if they do we could compare apples to apples.
And since we don't sell our springs anymore, just the H&R ones, i will try to get the H&R rates to compare. But i think most manufactures will not tell you this info as this is somewhat secret and is what make all springs different.
We are here to help, and i think if others can get this info on the other springs, we could create a very good comparo.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
I was trying to be a smart a#%, but I could not figure out how to type text after I copied that info.
I think you can keep your spring rate info general. I cannot buy springs without knowing something about the rates as this is the most fundamental portion of suspension set-up...this information should determine the fundamental handling character of the car. It's guess work otherwise. Anyone who makes a purchase without knowing the spring rates is doing so blindly. It's like buying clothes without knowing the size.
Regarding spring rates in general:
I don't understand the secretive mindset. The character of the spring is what is being sold, otherwise why bother. This is not directed toward you ALTA, but toward every manufacturer who finds it necessary to conceal this info. Written another way, all springs being sold without spring rate info should be considered the same spring because it becomes impossible to differentiate.
I'm not asking for damper dyno charts especially where damper velocity and curve are concerned...that requires lots of work and tedious driving time. Just spring rates as these will affect the car body's natural frequency in a fundamental way.
I think you can keep your spring rate info general. I cannot buy springs without knowing something about the rates as this is the most fundamental portion of suspension set-up...this information should determine the fundamental handling character of the car. It's guess work otherwise. Anyone who makes a purchase without knowing the spring rates is doing so blindly. It's like buying clothes without knowing the size.
Regarding spring rates in general:
I don't understand the secretive mindset. The character of the spring is what is being sold, otherwise why bother. This is not directed toward you ALTA, but toward every manufacturer who finds it necessary to conceal this info. Written another way, all springs being sold without spring rate info should be considered the same spring because it becomes impossible to differentiate.
I'm not asking for damper dyno charts especially where damper velocity and curve are concerned...that requires lots of work and tedious driving time. Just spring rates as these will affect the car body's natural frequency in a fundamental way.
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
meb,
Good point, but the rates are not something 90% of the people know what to look for. This can make some springs look too stiff when they may not be depending on how they are measured.
We are not working with coilover springs, where they are all measured the same, and can be compared in all aspecs. With OEM fitting springs the spring rate measured at ride height (spring compressed to X inches) is what matters. Since no one measures the rate in the same place(some measure their springs not even loaded) it can give a false rate, when you compare springs.
Then thrown in the bump stops, and that really screws things up. Meaning that some people use the bump stop as part of the spring rates
If you want to get super technical about spring rates on Mini's, Coilovers are your best option. Because if springs rates are so important, you can get spring that suites your needs perfectly, and can actually adjust the height of the car, and use that exactness to dial in the suspension.
You have to remember, 90% of the OEM spring replacement customers are looking for a comfortable (maybe a little stiffer) and a lower ride. Spring rates (without the correct info to compare them all) will do nothing but confuse everyone as to which is what they want. For instance, Springs X lower the car X amount and are stiffer than stock. If people like the way they feel, then great! We have a winner.
But as i promised, and if others can gather this info that would be great!
Mini front loaded height as measured at ride height = 105 mm 160#
Mini rear loaded height as measured at ride height = 130 mm 215#
If others can get other springs rates at these 2 loaded heights then we can start comparing apples to apples.
Good point, but the rates are not something 90% of the people know what to look for. This can make some springs look too stiff when they may not be depending on how they are measured.
We are not working with coilover springs, where they are all measured the same, and can be compared in all aspecs. With OEM fitting springs the spring rate measured at ride height (spring compressed to X inches) is what matters. Since no one measures the rate in the same place(some measure their springs not even loaded) it can give a false rate, when you compare springs.
Then thrown in the bump stops, and that really screws things up. Meaning that some people use the bump stop as part of the spring rates
If you want to get super technical about spring rates on Mini's, Coilovers are your best option. Because if springs rates are so important, you can get spring that suites your needs perfectly, and can actually adjust the height of the car, and use that exactness to dial in the suspension.
You have to remember, 90% of the OEM spring replacement customers are looking for a comfortable (maybe a little stiffer) and a lower ride. Spring rates (without the correct info to compare them all) will do nothing but confuse everyone as to which is what they want. For instance, Springs X lower the car X amount and are stiffer than stock. If people like the way they feel, then great! We have a winner.
But as i promised, and if others can gather this info that would be great!
Mini front loaded height as measured at ride height = 105 mm 160#
Mini rear loaded height as measured at ride height = 130 mm 215#
If others can get other springs rates at these 2 loaded heights then we can start comparing apples to apples.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
I see your position more clearly.
You point to one of the reasons I'm so fanatical about adjusting the height of my springs, and then ride height. I've had a few people - alignment folk - mess with the actual spring heights - different at all four corners...and dampers different at all four corners too
- and the difference is very noticable especially on undulating, frost heaved highways. The car is all over the place. ...one damper hits the bump stop the other doesn't etc...not fun.
But I definately understand your position and thanks for the rate info.
You point to one of the reasons I'm so fanatical about adjusting the height of my springs, and then ride height. I've had a few people - alignment folk - mess with the actual spring heights - different at all four corners...and dampers different at all four corners too
- and the difference is very noticable especially on undulating, frost heaved highways. The car is all over the place. ...one damper hits the bump stop the other doesn't etc...not fun.But I definately understand your position and thanks for the rate info.
meb- no need to be nice.
they can take a h-sport spring (a benchmarked spring on a MCS), measure
it, then measure the same way on their springs and provide a comparison.
they can also take a factory set of springs and do comparions with it.
that's all. we don't care of ACTUAL rates if hard to obtain. we
wanted to know a reference whether to expect a stiffer or softer spring
and by how much. just a starting point.
but who cares, it's out of the market anyway. lol!!
they can take a h-sport spring (a benchmarked spring on a MCS), measure
it, then measure the same way on their springs and provide a comparison.
they can also take a factory set of springs and do comparions with it.
that's all. we don't care of ACTUAL rates if hard to obtain. we
wanted to know a reference whether to expect a stiffer or softer spring
and by how much. just a starting point.
but who cares, it's out of the market anyway. lol!!
Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
kenchan,
Why not be nice?
Who is they? People out there? Or Alta?
We didn't test, nor don't care what other companies rates are. Our spring rates are the way we wanted them compared to stock. Actually our springs were one of the first on the market years ago. Yes they are off the market now, but things change. Not sure why that is funny?? If i am not mistaken, no one else has provided this info for the reasons mentioned previously.
If you got some of our springs and were not happy, i am sorry. We had very good, but slow, sucess with our springs. We had zero customers complain about them. But for some reason, you seem like you might have a complaint? If so what was it?
Why not be nice?
Who is they? People out there? Or Alta?
We didn't test, nor don't care what other companies rates are. Our spring rates are the way we wanted them compared to stock. Actually our springs were one of the first on the market years ago. Yes they are off the market now, but things change. Not sure why that is funny?? If i am not mistaken, no one else has provided this info for the reasons mentioned previously.
If you got some of our springs and were not happy, i am sorry. We had very good, but slow, sucess with our springs. We had zero customers complain about them. But for some reason, you seem like you might have a complaint? If so what was it?
www.outmotoring.com took care of my complaints about 2 of the
Alta products i bought which had quality issues. which i communicated to you
directly.
Alta products i bought which had quality issues. which i communicated to you
directly.
Originally Posted by ALTA2
kenchan,
Why not be nice?
Who is they? People out there? Or Alta?
We didn't test, nor don't care what other companies rates are. Our spring rates are the way we wanted them compared to stock. Actually our springs were one of the first on the market years ago. Yes they are off the market now, but things change. Not sure why that is funny?? If i am not mistaken, no one else has provided this info for the reasons mentioned previously.
If you got some of our springs and were not happy, i am sorry. We had very good, but slow, sucess with our springs. We had zero customers complain about them. But for some reason, you seem like you might have a complaint? If so what was it?
Why not be nice?
Who is they? People out there? Or Alta?
We didn't test, nor don't care what other companies rates are. Our spring rates are the way we wanted them compared to stock. Actually our springs were one of the first on the market years ago. Yes they are off the market now, but things change. Not sure why that is funny?? If i am not mistaken, no one else has provided this info for the reasons mentioned previously.
If you got some of our springs and were not happy, i am sorry. We had very good, but slow, sucess with our springs. We had zero customers complain about them. But for some reason, you seem like you might have a complaint? If so what was it?
...
akkk meb, don't be sad.
here's a sticky dominicminicoopers was working on:
here's a sticky dominicminicoopers was working on:
Originally Posted by dominicminicoopers
Wanted: Aftermarket Spring info. More details needed:
Brand/Name:
MC Drop Front/Rear: (inches of drop as compared to stock)
MCS Drop Front/Rear: (inches of drop as compared to stock)
Spring rate Fr/Rr: (please specify rate in lbs-in and if progressive, then specify the different rates)
Stock Springs Sport Suspension (linear)
MC Drop: 0.0" fr / 0.0" rr
MCS Drop: 0.0" fr / 0.0" rr
Rate: 225 fr / 220 rr (Which level of suspension is this?)
(p.s. I'm not sure which springs these are since there are reportedy two variations of springs for the MINIs SS and SS+)
Alta
MC Drop: 1.5" fr / 1.0" rr
MCS Drop: 0.95" fr / 0.75" rr
Rate: Alta claims the 5th on spring rates :LOL:
APEX Sport
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.2" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
Eibach
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.2" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
H&R
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.3" rr (others have mentioned 1.4" fr/1.4"rr)
Rate: 260 fr / 260 rr
H-Sport (progressive)
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.0" rr
Rate: 173-195 fr / 160-300 rr
King Springs (progressive) (found info on MINI2...Austrailian springs)
MC? Drop: 1"-1.2" fr / 1"-1.2" rr
Rate: 220 fr / 209 rr
KW (v1, v2, v3)
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.38" fr (variable) / 1.38" rr (variable)
Rate: 278 fr / 222 rr
Leda combo
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: NEEDED!!
Rate: 250 fr / 350 rr
Leda Race
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: NEEDED!!
Rate: 350 fr / 500 rr
M7
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.3" fr / 1.3" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
PSS9
MC Drop: adjustable
MCS Drop: adjustable
Rate: 325 fr progressive / 340 rr w/115lb tender
325lb/in front springs - progressive
345lb/in rear spring with a 115lb/in tender or helper spring - linear
Tein H-tech
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 0.6" fr / 0.5" rr
Rate: 207 fr / 229 rr
Tein S-tech
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.1" rr
Rate: 224 fr / 246 rr
Ultrik
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.0" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
Whiteline (progressive) (found info on MINI2...Austrailian springs)
MC? Drop: 0.6-1.0" fr / 0.6-1.0" rr
Rate: 180-264 fr / 192-234 rr
p.s. Still for the progressive rate springs, I'd like to know not the average, but the high and low rates. Thanks!
p.s.s. I've also found that some websites list "drop" based upon Cooper or Cooper S. It appears when Aftermarket springs are put on the Cooper it is not lowered as much as putting those same springs onto a Coooper S. The difference is close to a 1/2". So I think this is why sometimes you'll see apparently "conflicting" reports on amount of drop. So lets be sure to know which is which. :-)
Brand/Name:
MC Drop Front/Rear: (inches of drop as compared to stock)
MCS Drop Front/Rear: (inches of drop as compared to stock)
Spring rate Fr/Rr: (please specify rate in lbs-in and if progressive, then specify the different rates)
Stock Springs Sport Suspension (linear)
MC Drop: 0.0" fr / 0.0" rr
MCS Drop: 0.0" fr / 0.0" rr
Rate: 225 fr / 220 rr (Which level of suspension is this?)
(p.s. I'm not sure which springs these are since there are reportedy two variations of springs for the MINIs SS and SS+)
Alta
MC Drop: 1.5" fr / 1.0" rr
MCS Drop: 0.95" fr / 0.75" rr
Rate: Alta claims the 5th on spring rates :LOL:
APEX Sport
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.2" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
Eibach
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.2" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
H&R
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.3" rr (others have mentioned 1.4" fr/1.4"rr)
Rate: 260 fr / 260 rr
H-Sport (progressive)
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.0" rr
Rate: 173-195 fr / 160-300 rr
King Springs (progressive) (found info on MINI2...Austrailian springs)
MC? Drop: 1"-1.2" fr / 1"-1.2" rr
Rate: 220 fr / 209 rr
KW (v1, v2, v3)
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.38" fr (variable) / 1.38" rr (variable)
Rate: 278 fr / 222 rr
Leda combo
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: NEEDED!!
Rate: 250 fr / 350 rr
Leda Race
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: NEEDED!!
Rate: 350 fr / 500 rr
M7
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.3" fr / 1.3" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
PSS9
MC Drop: adjustable
MCS Drop: adjustable
Rate: 325 fr progressive / 340 rr w/115lb tender
325lb/in front springs - progressive
345lb/in rear spring with a 115lb/in tender or helper spring - linear
Tein H-tech
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 0.6" fr / 0.5" rr
Rate: 207 fr / 229 rr
Tein S-tech
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.2" fr / 1.1" rr
Rate: 224 fr / 246 rr
Ultrik
MC Drop: NEEDED!!
MCS Drop: 1.0" fr / 1.0" rr
Rate: NEEDED!!
Whiteline (progressive) (found info on MINI2...Austrailian springs)
MC? Drop: 0.6-1.0" fr / 0.6-1.0" rr
Rate: 180-264 fr / 192-234 rr
p.s. Still for the progressive rate springs, I'd like to know not the average, but the high and low rates. Thanks!
p.s.s. I've also found that some websites list "drop" based upon Cooper or Cooper S. It appears when Aftermarket springs are put on the Cooper it is not lowered as much as putting those same springs onto a Coooper S. The difference is close to a 1/2". So I think this is why sometimes you'll see apparently "conflicting" reports on amount of drop. So lets be sure to know which is which. :-)
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