-4 degrees is outragous

 

yeh, and test driving it at that angle is even more funny.
there's got to be some common sense here. i said -2 was ok, not
-4.

will's probably just came from the factory with more neg camber
than others.

 

Some good advice has been posted already.

Duck Werks, if you haven't had the car aligned I suggest you get the toe settings taken care of pretty quickly. Post-lowering toe-in will really accelerate the wear on the tires, to a far greater degree than camber will. Setting toe to zero front and rear is one option. That setting will maximize fuel economy and minimize wear, as the tire isn't scrubbing as you drive down the road. It also results in a decent level of responsiveness in the Mini without making the car too unstable.

Right now, with the toe in you have if it hasn't been adjusted, the car should be very stable but less willing to change direction. It will also take less than 3000 miles to noticably wear your tires, speaking from experience. After lowering mine, it took me a couple weeks to get the toe reset and I drove ALOT of miles in those 2 weeks.

After getting the toe adjusted, which can be done without any additional parts, drive the car and see how it feels to you. If the car is still pushing too much, you can either reduce the rear camber to lower grip levels in the rear, or install camber plates up front to increase front camber and thus front end grip to a level that better balances with the rear. You can get similar feel either way, but ultimate grip mid-corner will be higher with increased camber. If you go that route, try -2 to -2.3 degrees in front, and -1.5 to -1.8 in the rear. Difference in tire wear due to the increased negative camber is negligible compared to stock, based on over 70,000 miles of street driving with that setup.

The feel of increased role on turn in is due to the progressive springs. I've noticed the same thing going from linear rate SPAX to progressive (in front) PSS9s. This despite the ultimate spring rate of the Bilsteins being higher and the shock damping much stiffer. The SPAX actually felt much better on turn-in. I've considered installing a larger front sway bar to improve that feel, but don't want to screw up my mid-corner balance as my rear bar is already as stiff as it will go.

Along the lines of other alignment options, you can get quicker turn-in by going to slight toe-out in front. Going to toe-out in the rear will increase mid-corner rotation, but decrease stability under hard braking. Just don't go too far in toe-out if you are doing lots of street miles. Toe-in is much "safer" for street driving, but also make the car much less responsive (which is why it is safer for many drivers) and thus less fun.

Once you get the tire pressures and toe sorted out, and settle on a camber strategy, then you can fine tune things a bit with sway bar settings and additional tweaks to tire pressures.

Scott
90SM

 

DuckWerks. It all depends on how you are going to use your car {street daily driver,street-occasional autocross or track etc.} and how much $ you want or can spend at this time.

If for street, at the very least do a 4/wheel alignment. {toe is the only thing adjustible on your car without replacing parts}

If for street and performance, do an alignment after replacing rear lower control arms.{control arms are a couple hundred bucks, but 4/wheel alignments aren't cheap either so you don't want more than one if you can help it}

If full on performance is what your after, then you will want to install front camber adjusting plates. {that is where the fun really starts as far as handling}.

 

The car is primarily a weekend drive. I have done a couple of track days in the past and that was the entire reason for this mod.

I know what you mean about costs involved (particularly with wheel alignments) I am at a dilemma in trying to decide on a path of least cost.

I think I will try the wheel alignment and sway-bar adjustment first. If this does not entirely work, I will opt for replacing the rear control arms.

Is toe adjustability only available on the front (without replacing additional parts)? Would it be right to assume that after control arms are replaced, the car would need another 4/w alignment?

 

Duckworks,
Not mentioned so far is that the 2002 MCS came with stiffer springs and shocks. A change was made to a softer suspension in 2003 for the USA market. This would make the change from stock stiffness to h-sport springs more noticable. When I did the h-sport springs I also added the lower control arms and had the rear set to -1.5 degs camber. Also, the rear bar is set to the middle setting. I think this will make you much happier with your setup.

 

Yes after replacing rear control arms, you would need to again align the suspension.
The front camber is not adjustible without installing a camber adjusting plate that attaches to the upper strut tower.

sandan is correct, I think you would like the rear sway bar set to the middle setting better than the softest that you now have.

 

DuckWerks,

To answer your question on toe, both front and rear toe is adjustable with the stock setup. Front is a conventional adjustment, and in the rear the trailing arm can also be adjusted.

Replacing the rear control arms makes it a bit easier, but is not necessary.

To adjust camber in front, camber plates of some form are required. In the rear, at least one adjustable control arm per side is required unless you have one of the latest Mini's with some factory camber adjustment available.

Installing front camber plates or rear control arms pretty much requires an alignment to get things in a reasonable range.

Good luck.

Scott
90SM

 

Duckwerks,
Came across your thread as I'm researching swaybars and you mentioned you have the seemingly rare 20mm bar which I believe is only made by Whiteline in Australia and sold in the USA by Mini Mania. On Whiteline's website they provide suggest wheel alignment settings which may help. Look here:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/YourCar/...ni_cooperS.pdf

Am I correct that this is the bar you have?:
http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm

This bar seems like a reasonable compromise between the popular 19mm and 22mm bars. How did you like this bar before you changed the springs?
Thanks and good luck!

 

Thank you to everyone who gave advice

I have finally had a wheel alignmet and also installed Alta control arms to correct the increased rear camber. I also tweaked the rear bar up one notch.

The car now feels sharp and I am surprised to find that the alta arms to be more compliant than initially expected. I'll see (after the next track day) whether I need to up the rear-bar setting again.