Suspension Megan Racing - What size Sway Bar?
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
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From: Middle Earth
I am most interested in hollow bars that offer the same effective rates as solid bars only because of the weight savings. I think getting weight out of the car is important for preformance.
JOHO
JOHO
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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...except that, a larger rear bar will transfer weight diagonlly to the inside front wheel during a cornering manuver...and will continue aiding front wheel grip until the inside rear wheel leaves the ground after which there is zero weight transfer. Personally, I'm concerned with adding enough rear bar to keep my outside front tire near zero camber thru the last portion of any turn at the track. By doing this I'll be using all the potential traction available from this tire while powering out of a turn. If this wheel goes positive, the car will understeer as I power out of the turn. If this wheel remains negative, the car will understeer as I power out of the turn.
Selecting a larger rear bar is a matter of balancing additional front end grip with the loss of rear wheel grip. The balancing act must consider where you are driving.
I'm concerned with a balnaced car as well, but the total package - spring rates, ride and roll rates, geometry, ride height and the list goes on, determines how much swaybar contribution is necessary.
This is an iterative process that demands sensitive thought, but also one where no black and white answers exist.
Selecting a larger rear bar is a matter of balancing additional front end grip with the loss of rear wheel grip. The balancing act must consider where you are driving.
I'm concerned with a balnaced car as well, but the total package - spring rates, ride and roll rates, geometry, ride height and the list goes on, determines how much swaybar contribution is necessary.
This is an iterative process that demands sensitive thought, but also one where no black and white answers exist.
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Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 304
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From: La Puente, CA
This is a pretty difficult decision... appearantly talking about sway bars is like discussing religions. Very opinionated and can get heated quick. So far everyone agrees upon the price being low and the quality high with a range of adjustability. I can promise you those three characteristics with our sway bars. I appreicate the loads of input from this forum though. The massive responce just goes to show me how dedicated and performance oriented everyone is about their Mini Coopers.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
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Steve,
Cost may be a concern, but so is quality and function. Within reason, quality and function are more important to me. I'm personally not expecting a $150.00 bar...$250 -$300 isn't unreasonable for a straight forward hollow bar either - I'm not suggesting a price here, just using fairly relative examples.
Cost may be a concern, but so is quality and function. Within reason, quality and function are more important to me. I'm personally not expecting a $150.00 bar...$250 -$300 isn't unreasonable for a straight forward hollow bar either - I'm not suggesting a price here, just using fairly relative examples.
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Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: La Puente, CA
Originally Posted by meb
Steve,
Cost may be a concern, but so is quality and function. Within reason, quality and function are more important to me. I'm personally not expecting a $150.00 bar...$250 -$300 isn't unreasonable for a straight forward hollow bar either - I'm not suggesting a price here, just using fairly relative examples.
Cost may be a concern, but so is quality and function. Within reason, quality and function are more important to me. I'm personally not expecting a $150.00 bar...$250 -$300 isn't unreasonable for a straight forward hollow bar either - I'm not suggesting a price here, just using fairly relative examples.
Ey... when are you gonna respond to my PM anyway?
Do we know what the largest bar possible is? I looked for my stock bar bushing but couldn't find it. Someone needs to measure the outside diameter of any rear bar bushing and we can figure 4+? mm less than that is the max bar size. A check of 4130 steel tubing sizes showed lots of 1-1/8" sizes (28.6mm) and a more limited choice of 1-1/16" (27mm). H-sports race only bar is a solid 1.0" and +501%.
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by gowest
Do we know what the largest bar possible is? I looked for my stock bar bushing but couldn't find it. Someone needs to measure the outside diameter of any rear bar bushing and we can figure 4+? mm less than that is the max bar size. A check of 4130 steel tubing sizes showed lots of 1-1/8" sizes (28.6mm) and a more limited choice of 1-1/16" (27mm). H-sports race only bar is a solid 1.0" and +501%.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
Swaybars add to wheel rate folks. Your tires can only handle so much weight transfer; when the inside rear wheel lifts off the ground, the rear swaybar is NO LONGER contributing to weight transfer. The limit is both common sense and physical...at some extreme point a very large bar will not allow an independent suspension to do its job. Might as well have a solid axle.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Springfield, Missouri
Originally Posted by meb
Swaybars add to wheel rate folks. Your tires can only handle so much weight transfer; when the inside rear wheel lifts off the ground, the rear swaybar is NO LONGER contributing to weight transfer. The limit is both common sense and physical...at some extreme point a very large bar will not allow an independent suspension to do its job. Might as well have a solid axle.
Originally Posted by Nitro22
I called H-Sport last week and they said all of their MINI stabilizer bars (including the RACE bar) is made from hollow tubing.
Apparantly the engineer that works there has a MINI Cooper S and has designed the RACE bar for their race MINI Coopers. He said that the stiff setting (500% stiffer) is perfect for autoxing and the soft and middle setting is preferable for tracking. I asked him why not go larger in diameter or make it solid? His reply was that the object of suspension tuning is not how big you can go, but what will give the car the best handling characteristics for the type of driving you are doing. He did not want to go larger or go solid because it would be too stiff and too heavy. He said 500% stiffer is more than enough for any dedicated racer out there.
With all this said, I highly recommend Megan not to copy any of the existing stabilizer bar diameters and offer their own sizes. This way, you will be adding more variety to the market instead of a redundancy.
Good Luck!
Apparantly the engineer that works there has a MINI Cooper S and has designed the RACE bar for their race MINI Coopers. He said that the stiff setting (500% stiffer) is perfect for autoxing and the soft and middle setting is preferable for tracking. I asked him why not go larger in diameter or make it solid? His reply was that the object of suspension tuning is not how big you can go, but what will give the car the best handling characteristics for the type of driving you are doing. He did not want to go larger or go solid because it would be too stiff and too heavy. He said 500% stiffer is more than enough for any dedicated racer out there.
With all this said, I highly recommend Megan not to copy any of the existing stabilizer bar diameters and offer their own sizes. This way, you will be adding more variety to the market instead of a redundancy.
Good Luck!
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