has anyone tried the KONI Gold FSD that one of the vendors had on the demo car at MMW? or has anyone else tried it all? it is suppose to be self adjusting for a very noticable smoother ride and keep the car planted better than the stock.

 

I haven't bumped into a MINI that has it yet but I do see it listed for $900 a set.
http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm


"The FSD's revolutionary technology was designed and patented by KONI to end the compromise between comfort and road-holding. These shocks automatically adjust to road conditions as well as driving style, delivering greater stability and control, and therefore greater driving pleasure."

 

yeah i'm pretty much intrigued by what they say about the golds can do... but i was wondering if somone has hands-on experience, or butt-on experience in this matter, on a car equipped with those and could they give some input about them. i wasn't able to get a test drive that mini mania advertise you could do on the first day and i didn't see them promoting any test drives today either.

 

"The piston head design allows independent tuning of the compression and rebound damping forces to provide optimum ride comfort and performance without compromise."

"The rising rate valving of the Bilstein shock absorber provides the necessary damping to react quicker to road conditions without sacrificing ride comfort. This combination of valving and high pressure nitrogen gas keeps the tires in constant contact with the road helping to ensure safety through enhanced control."

I may be biased twoard Bilstein (after using the Koni sports i.e. I've used Koni's) but it does sound like what Bilstein has been doing for a while.

 

You might want to try contacting NAM user Don_Racine. Not only is he a very knowledgeable Mini fellow, but is also the principal of MiniMania.

He just installed the Gold FSDs on his 2005 MCS Cabrio.

 

Digressive valving that Bilstein uses is velocity sensitive just like used in the KONI yellow sport without the benefit of rebound adjustability. FSD is like no other mechanical shock on the market in that for a given velocity the forces will change with different frequencies. If you a Bilstein shock and run it at differing frequencies at the same velocity the forces will be the same. All dampers are velocity sensitive meaning the faster you push it in or pull it apart the forces will increase. The KONI FSD at the same velocity and a lower frequency for example roll frequencies which are near 1Hz will make a larger amount of force then the same velocity at a 10Hz frequency. Theses forces can be several times more force than a standard KONI or other shocks while not reducing the ride quality. This allows the FSD shock to improve both the ride quality and handling by a significant amount.

 

Per from GRM has them (not sure if they are "gold") on his '05 MC. Check this link and hunt around the GRM website:

http://grmotorsports.com/news/102005...ampionship.php

-Erik

 

Search for FSD both here on NAM and Mini2.com forums. There have been several threads on the subject and reviews from owners. I am having a set installed on my MCC.

 

a friend tried them on his 04, with 16" run flats he found them too stiff, but after returning to stock and installing 17" regular tires/new light wheels, he accomplished the softer ride he was looking for. I believe they worked as advertised, but with is worn out 16 run flats, he didnt give them enough of a chance and now doesnt want to reinstall them. these are in the marketplace for $575.00, open to REASONABLE offers.

 

Yep, I've got the FSD "Golds" on our MINI. I love them. I am going to try some uber-stiff rear revalves for the 2006 season, but I'm going to keep the FSDs in the front....It'll be interesting to see if that improves the car, as it's already very fast in H Stock.

Per

 

GRMPer- have you ever tried the Koni Yellows? If so, how would you
compare the FSD in terms of comfort?

 

I'd also like to see how the FSD's do with lowering springs. The Mini Mania site says "for use with factory springs", or am I reading this wrong?Who will be the guinea pig here?

 

I *might* try them out with my H&R's. I've been told by a Koni employee that it's a bad idea though. He says hitting the bumpstop will disrupt the shock - and hitting the bumpstop is hard to avoid with the small amount of shock travel on our cars.

My backup plan is to try to get some JCW springs to use with them.

Third choice will be just the full JCW shocks/springs.

I've been stalling for over a year waiting to see if something better came along.

 

what advantages do u see usin' the JCW springs on the koni's?

what do u like about the JCW set up?
glad to see im not the only one thats been waitin' this long to find sumthin' better

 

I was at the same test day as Satch with Roundel before I put them on my MINI...they are more comfy than the Sports on "soft", more comfortable than stock, yet still very controlled because of their strong low frequency valving.

Per

 

Advantages of the JCW springs is simply that they don't lower the car as much as aftermarket springs.

Historically, I've run higher-end suspensions - compression and rebound adjustments with high spring rates. I still tend to want to go that route with the car, but the sensible side of me knows that I've gotten out of doing HPDE events, and the best suspension for a street car isn't always the most extreme.

- I've heard enough to know that the FSD's are a good setup - I just can't bring myself to put stock springs back on the car (the fact that I threw mine away doesn't help matters).

- Everyone seems pretty happy with the JCW suspension as well.

- If the PSS9's were $1200, I'd be all over them. At $1500 though, they are overpriced to me. At that pricepoint, I start shopping for double-adjustables.

---------

To further complicate things, I've never driven a stock MCS. Mine was bought with springs already on it. I know it's not right, but I have no idea where it started out, what it would look like at stock height, or anything.

 

I've heard that at least a few autocrossers were going this route.

 

I remember reading somewhere those dampers only work on stock spring
height...is that true?

 

AFAIK, they were designed for stock class spring lengths, the rear has so little travel that lowering the rear doesn't give the shock much time to do its thing..before it hits the bumpstops and that interferes with the FSD "thang".

Per

 

im taking it that you can't use shorter bumpstops... is that right?

 

Some of what you wrote may be a little hard to follow; one can make 30 different dampers which all dyno with the same force. How this force 'feels' to your backside is determined by how velocity affects the oil as it flows thru internal plumbing. (When water, for example, reaches a speed of 72'/sec at (can't remember what psi), flow loss due to friction becomes exponentially higher and pressure builds rapidly.) Each damper may 'feel' very very different because the velocity/force curves differ. The internal construction really determines force and feel - how all the orifices work together, how easily oil flows, and, transitions thru these really determines the 'feel' part. If the velocity of the piston exceeds a velocity at which oil can flow thru these orifices easily - the oil cannot flow any faster - damping forces will increase rapidly - the water example above. And according at least one engineer I've talked with, tuning a damper is as much a 'feel thing' as it is pure engineering - he refers to the 'feel' part as "black magic".

By analogy, say we have 30 different cars that can all corner at 1G. How each achieves this ultimate number may be quite different - is getting to 1G easy and controllable or is it difficult? Do any of these cars exhibit lots of understeer at the limit or oversteer? Power curves are the same as well; take two engines producing 250hp and 250lb ft torque. One produces its hp and torque 2,000 rpm higher than the other - they will 'feel' very different from each other.

Digitally achieved numbers mean nothing to our backsides; we as humans can feel much more than we can describe, which makes computers fairly awful tools for developing damper feel. Dampers can and should be designed with the aid of computers and history. However, until a computer can feel what my back side feels, and, can help 'tune' damper 'feel', humans with tons of 'feel' experience must be part of the development equation.

Another subtle part of the damper 'feel' equation is the position of the damper. Piston velocity in a damper that is arranged vertically remains constant thru its travel. Piston velocity in an inlined damper (Mac Strut)increases as it compresses. One of the reasons the cams that actuate inboard spring/dampers (F1) are so important.

All this written, the Koni single adjustable dampers 'feel' like crap.

 

After getting little more than half price offers on the FSD set i had for sale for my buddy mike, I took the bull by the horns, bought them from him and put them on my car. 05 S with h&r sports for springs, completely adjustable rear with HR camber links, 215/45 15 bfg tires on Konig 17x7 wheels. after a week and approx 500 miles, all I can say is WOW! this is the best my car has been as yet, much better then the springs with just stock shocks. what the long term effects to the shocks will be from shorter travel is anyones guess, but I will find out in the long run. anyone on the fence about these, I highly recomend them from my brief experince thus far.

 

Just get the koni yellows. You'd think from reading this board that it's an all out race suspension but I find it's pretty tolerable and my wife hasn't yelled at me at all (good indicator). On the street I run full soft up front and half hard in the back and it's certainly not stock, but my MR2 Spyder is stiffer (stock). For events I dial the front into full hard and it's not that much stiffer, I usually go for a week driving on the street without remembering to switch it back to soft.

 

stage1- nice review. when you say "completely adjustable rear" you are
referring to the other (non FSD) hardware, right? Those FSD's are non-
damp rate adjustable, rather self adjusting... yes?

 

No, what he wrote was "completely adjustable rear with HR camber links". Pretty self-explainatory.

Besides, everyone here - especially someone with them on their car knows the shocks aren't adjustable.