I'm in the market for a MINI, still not sure if i'm getting a Cooper or Cooper S [hopefully the Cooper S (only for the extra power)] -> up to my dad. Either way, i want to track the car and was wondering what suspension setups are being used at the track (springs/coilovers, shocks, swaybars, strut bars, etc.). I don't plan on doing hard tracking just yet as i'm an inexperienced driver. More-so very spirited driving, auto-x, and occasional track days (1 weekend a month i hope).

I was thinking of getting the Ground Control coilovers with the Eibach springs, H-Sport 19mm Rear Sway Bar, H-Sport Rear Camber Link. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

 

I've only done one track event so far, and I did it on an (almost) stock Cooper and it worked just fine. I still had more handling left in the car - I was not driving it to its limits yet. I've got the stock "sports" suspension, not the sports suspension plus. The only mods are a stiffer rear sway bar, set on the softest setting, and non runflat tires.

I recommend starting stock, or close to stock. Ditch the runflats first - it will make a huge difference. Rear swaybar second.

For a while, track is more about improving your times than competing with other people. For that, it's more rewarding to know you got faster rather than spending money and making your car faster.

 

And just to prove that I'm full of crap, I'm about to call my dealership to schedule an appointment to get the JCW suspension kit installed (now that it is available for older cars).

 

I pretty much killed a set of new street tires on a single weekend on the track. The front camber sucks for track events, and hte ouside front tires will wear away to nothing....

If you're gonna do some coilovers, I'd put that money to camber plates first.

Matt

 

How much is this upgrade ? How much for the install ?

 

It depends... Cooper or MCS? What's your dealerships labor rate? etc, etc... I don't know if there's an extra cost for the pre-05 cars or not.

Baseline (for 05 MINIs anyway):
Cooper S: $945 (plus install)
Cooper: $1120 (plus install)

 

driving school first..... :smile: i can say it probably made the biggest impact to my driving, and i can assure you that you will learn ALOT!

now... if you are a newbie, stick with stock suspension... add a sway bar and set it in the middle... dont bother with shocks and springs... yet... coilovers are nice, but very pricey for the real good kind with damper adjustments

 

I agree with kyriian. The reason I am going with the JCW suspension upgrade is my high mileage cooper (now over 76,000 miles) will need new struts sooner or later. They're still capable of passing inspection right now, but it's only a matter of time. Replacing the struts with stock parts is really expensive, and makes the JCW kit look like a bargain.

 

Absolutely agree with the folks suggesting to take a few driving schools first with the stock suspension, event if it's just 2-3 events, it will give you a margin of safety and experience that will help your long term growth as a driver.

Hey Dr Obnxs, are they camber plates able to be adjusted back and forth for the track and street without an alignment?

 

I don't know of any adjustable camber plates that will not require significant toe adjustmet when you change from your street to track settings. Thats the fast answer! Most people just make a compromise (camber) adjustment that they can live with on the street and get an alignment for that. There are ways to do your own alignment yourself. I was shocked at how much negative the toe had become when I changed my camber from 0 (stock) to 1.5deg .

 

Agreed, invest your money first in the driver. Learn the car as it is. When you are ready to move to a sway bar, get a 22mm with 3 adjustments, start with it on soft for the track and then decide if you want it stiffer. Tires, high performance street tires, camber plates will help with wear and tear on the tires as well as handling. But learn about the car and develop you skills first.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I agree with all of you that driving school is the best track "mod" one can do. I am planning on doing that before i get out on the track by myself. So, if i'm not mistaken, you all recommend i do driving school prior to doing any modifications at all (including performance [i.e. pulley, m7 ags, giac w/ injectors]) ?? Also, if i do driving school (1 or 2) before any mods to the car, would you recommend i go again after mods so as to be with an instructor to help me out with the newly acquired speed/handling?

 

I think you might be misunderstanding what we're referring to when we suggest driver schools. These driving schools are held on tracks. They are performance oriented events that give you a chance to learn car control and recovery with a semi-controlled set of conditions and an instructor in the car helping you out. More importantly, they're fun as hell!

I would suggest going without mods at least a couple times so that you can learn exactly *why* you want to mod the car. "Gee the car just doesn't want to turn; it's frustrating me to no end that I'm pushing off track in every corner". That's a symptom that can be corrected with more grip up front (better wheels and tires or more negative camber) or more roll resistance in the rear (beefier rear sway bar), among other things.

Where are you located?

 

Miami, Florida... Closest track is Homestead Speedway if i'm not mistaken, although i'm not sure if they have open track days. Anyone is South Florida track their car? If so, where?

 

Or you can do like me and mod the car up and THEN go to HPDE (high performance drivers ed).
Nothing wrong with doing this. I would at least do a rear 22 mm sway bar. It's important to have fun with the mods also. I say go for it and do the 15%, rear sway bar and absolutely a Miltek catback. Don't bother with the JCW suspension. Wait and see how you like HPDE and then get into the serious mods. I recommend this because you may find that you don't care for HPDE or on the other hand become obsessed with it. Either path will give you a different thinking and frame of mind of how you see your future Mini.
I am the extreme one way as I most likely will be stripping my car down and turn her into a full racer.

Track days are really a great experience. I have seen many like me, who are addicted, and some that leave early on their first day, never to return.


HAVE FUN!!

 

I say go to the BMWCCA site and join up. You will find some links there for chapters near you. You can check out their web sites and see what they have scheduled.

 

I'am with onasled, every mod I have done has made the car more fun to drive. I did the mods (15%, CAI, exh, springs, tires/wheels, swaybar, etc,etc) and drove my MCS for 2 years before my first HPDE. The only track specific mods so far are a harness and soon to be installed camber plates. The camber plates will be added to help reduce tire wear more than anything else.

Minimum mods for your first HPDE should be better brake fluid and front pads with all other mods optional but desired for max fun.

 

i did mods slowly, did driving school as i mod.... im sure there are people who will disagree with me but i dont believe there is one right way to do it...

sway bar was my first mod... and its one mod i'd never again regret doing again

 

Ok, i've decided to mod the car before the driving school as i had originally planned. If i get the MCS i'll be going with Helix 19% pulley and Eibach Sportline Springs within the week that i get the car. If i get the MC then i'll be going with Eibach Sportline and H-Sport 19mm Rear Sway Bar. I will be going to driving school but i think its better to gain experience with the car how i'll be tracking it rather than with a different setup that i'll only use that one time. Thanks for all the input.

 

<RANT>

My $.03

1. This guy's *dad* is making the decision as to what car he's getting.

2. See point 1, he probably has very little driving experience, PERIOD, much less car control skills

3. You are not only recommending that he mod the car without any driver training, but you're recommending that he start with a mod that will make the vehicle prone to oversteer (and a 22mm version at that)

I know I'm new here and I don't want to pi$$ in anyone's Wheaties but IMHO that's just irresponsible. And I'm not some crotchety old man that doesn't want teenagers to have fun (I'm 27); I just think that before someone modifies their car (especially with a beefy rear sway bar) they should know what they're doing behind the wheel.

</RANT>

 

Your three cents taken and your point is understood, But...
I'm chuckling here, and with no disrespect meant in doing so ...
Being that you've only been driving for 10 years you surly don't remember what cars used to be like. You have a bit of the 'New world order" thinking here ( which is a scarry thing) being concerned that a young driver put a rear sway bar in his car.
"Well, back in my day..." , .... my first car was a 1962 MGB.
When I was 16, back a long, long time ago, I had friends with Pintos, Fiats, Trans Ams, VW BUGS(!), and a slew of other cars that in todays world are just plain scarry. My second car at the age of 18 was a 1965 Buick Riviera Gran Sport. That's a 5000 lb car with almost 450 hp!
..... and your worried about a sway bar in a Mini Cooper ....

 

Markbradford has a very good point here.

The novice driver does not need to mod the car until he/she reaches the limit of the car in stock form. There are plenty of drivers that I have seen at an HPDE have not done this, even after a couple of years at it. I have seen too many driver get way ahead of themselves, they build up a wicked fast car with tons of adjustability. The car may be very fast, but the driver has not developed the skills to understand why the car is doing what it is doing. The car actually impedes the learning process. This is extremely apparent with big horsepower cars. Novices have enough to think about just driving around the track, I try not to confuse them by talking corner weights, toe specs and HP numbers.

I see there are some competent drivers on this board and I am very surprised that no one has mentioned changing brake pads and tires to something that will last a weekend HPDE (doesn't have to be R-compound either) as first mods. These are the two basic things I would recommend to anyone considering HPDE. Heck I think they are the 2 most important things to learn about first! After all, what is the most powerful part of the car? the motor? no.. the brakes are, teach people how to brake properly first, the speed will come naturally.

We have one of the best cars to learn performance driving (on track). It has relatively low HP and handles great. Learn the basics, braking & managing weight transfer, and car placement. Once you have these skills developed you will most likly be faster in a stock MINI than one with all the goodies.

If a novice wants to add a beefy oversteer inducing rear bar, that's fine also, I would just advise leaving the DSC on, just in case.

onalsed, I am not sure I understand your post regarding the cars you grew up with?

 

Onasled, you're old! So am I, but you're older.

Cars are more more benign today, even with bigger sway bars out back. What passed for a good handling car in the 60's and 70's would indeed, as Onasled wrote, be scary today. I would presume the human race has maintained a mean acuity for motor skills over the past three decades and so, has the neceesary skill set(s) to drive a car that is a bit more responsive with a 22mm rear bar. That alone does not make a car dangerous. Stupidity makes a car dangerous.

If a driving school is in the persons near future, all the better he/she has a larger bar; he or she will learn how to extract more from the car...so long as they understand Dad's Oldsmobile will not handle the same, they won't hurt themselves or anyone else.

In reality, either path works. My .3 cents.

 

Part of the reason we (or I, at least) didn't mention brake pad upgrades is this is the suspension forum.

But yes, depending upon the track you may need to upgrade the brake pads if you want to have a chance at surviving more than a couple of laps at a time.

 

You admit to being inexperienced, so all this candy will do nothing for you except to make you look and feel cool.

Do yourself a favor. Take the stock car to the track, spend time with an instructor and learn how to drive. Then if you get addicted and can drive the STOCK car at 90% of its capability with ease, then consider doing the suspension work.

Use the money you save to take some hot chick to dinner and then get some you-know-what later in the evening. :smile: