How much negative camber can be cranked into the front end with out resorting to adjustable plates? I assume that lower springs ie; H-Sports add some neg. on their own....

Cheers,

 

You can't crank in any -camber. It's not adjustable in the front at all. On MCS built after 1/1/05 you can adjust the rear camber. I think most people will end up reducing the rear camber rather than increasing it. I've been told that most MCS come with about -0.5 camber in the front and -1.0 in the rear. It's built in understeer. At least on the new MCS you can reduce rear camber and hopefully get closer to neutral handling. I'm pretty new to the MINI but I've been asking allot of questions and reading about alignment.

Here's my '05 MCS G stock set-up:

Front:
1/16th Toe out
-0.63 degrees camber left / -0.64 degree camber right (not adjustable)

Rear:
1/8" Toe in
-0.50 degrees camber left / -0.51 degrees camber right

I don't know how this is going to work yet. It's completely unproven. I have my first autoX this Sunday. I'll be driving the car on R compound tires for the first time so there's lots to learn.

Springs should increase negative camber, but I'm couldn't tell you how much. I'm a G stalker.

 

If you don't add front adjustable camber plates you cannot change front camber at all. You get what you got. Stock front camber in the MINI is about -0.1 to -0.9 degrees. Average is about -0.5 degrees.

Someone has checked and when lowering your MINI with springs the front camber doesn't change much at all. However the rear camber often gets -1.0 to -1.5 degrees more camber with adding lowering springs. Stock rear camber is roughly -1.0 to -2.0 degrees. Once lowered there is no guarantee that right and left camber will be the same number. Normally you'd need rear adjustable lower control arms to change rear camber.

Wiggles,
Here's some dedicated alignment suggestions from Randy Webb-

Street

Front camber: -.5
Front toe: 1/16 toe out
Rear camber: -1.3
Rear toe: 1/32 toe in

Race

Front camber: -2.2
Front toe: 1/8 toe out
Rear camber: -1.8
Rear toe: zero

Autocross

Front camber: -2.2
Front toe: 1/8 toe out
Rear camber: -1.6
Rear toe: 1/32 toe out

-------------
Note rear toe in is found on stock and street use only. Zero or toe out for autocross and track. If you run -0.6 degrees in the front and -0.5 degrees in the rear for camber you will be camber challenged front AND rear.

If you want to keep stock then you just have to run with what you've got. In non stock classes MINIs will run with -2.2 degrees in the front and about -1.6 degrees in the rear. This allows better use of the inner edges of the tires compared to stock camber settings. Otherwise the outer edge of the tire is heating up too much and working too hard- you'll wear out tires faster.

 

I'd like to avoid the added harshness of adj. camber plates, no other options eh?

Cheers,

 

"...added harshness..." ???

 

Ditto...???

 

The front struts normally have a large rubber bushing at the top mount. Camber plates remove this rubber bushing a replace it with a metal spherical bearing.

When the front suspension hits something, the metal bearing transmits significantly more vibration, etc. back to the car body and the the driver.

 

Not so sure about this. I believe that 'my' factory strut mounting plates have no rubber and are the same bearing setup as the aftermarket ones.

 

Me, too. My '03 MCS struts are not rubber isolated at the top of the unit. Metal to metal.

 

On a stock Mini the top of the strut goes into a bearing that is encased in rubber. You can't see this from under the car but if you take the cover off the strut tower inside the engine bay it should be obvious.

Some camber plates replace this rubber with a spherical bearing, but not all. Kmac, for example, has both versions though the rubber is replaced with polyurethane on the "street" setup. That is what I've been using for the last year with no issues at all.
Scott
90STX

 

I understand why MINI has setup the car to understeer but you know, it's really terrible because the front tires do not wear well at all!!! All the while the back tires do nearly nothing! Constant rotation is a must.

 

There are still options.
Front camber plates are not necessarily harsh riding.
I have RDR front plates with alignment set to autocross/track use.

On smooth roads I do fine and ride harshness is no worse than a stock MCS with runflats. If I hit a pothole or bump then it can be very bad with a loud bump sometimes. So I try to avoid road hazards and debris. Works for me.

Lowering springs in the front aren't going to change front camber much.

Your options would be-
If you want more negative camber you need front camber plates.
But you can choose a front camber that is not as severe as -2.2 degrees.
Maybe more like -1.0 or -1.5 would be enough. But everything is a compromise, you give up some smoothness for better cornering. If you push hard through corners then you'd need the -2.2 degrees to make full use of your tires.

When I installed my front camber plates the least camber I could set it at was -0.9 degrees. Before the plates in the front with H-sport springs I had -0.5 degrees. Camber plates run about $500 with 3 hours to install and then an alignment for about $80.

Or you can get tires that are sticky and 35 or 40 series. 215/40-17 if you have stock 17x7 rims or if you get 18x7.5 rims then 215/35-18 or 204/40-18 tires. Both those would offer better cornering than stock runflats.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys. Alright I'm a wuss, but if you had the roads we have here in Ri you might understand, downtown Newport is for SUVs. Anyway, I've got a track day coming up in April so I'll let you know if my next mod is camber plates. Never satisfied....


Cheers,

 

Morefun, which track day will you be attending?

 

I'm running with the Porsche Club on Thursday, 4/28 at LRP. It will be the first time with the Mini. I'm looking forward to driving along side cars that I know in terms of their performance cababilities (I've owned 5 Carreras). It will give me a yardstick to go by. With any luck and a little skill, I hope to humble some of the NA cars. Should be interesting!


Cheers,

 

Cool, let us know how you make out and what you decide about with regards to the camber plates!