I heard they used Sachs....is that true?

 

Leda makes Leda.

In business for over 25 years, LEDA suspension has manufactured shocks for all types of vehicles, from passenger cars to all out racers. LEDA’s goal has always been straight forward; build tough, reliable, and durable suspension units which provide excellent performance while withstanding the demands of international motorsport with minimal maintenance.
LEDA custom builds units for street and race cars alike, and incorporates special valving to suit the customers requirements. All LEDA suspension units are built by hand, utilizing the very best race-proven components available anywhere in the world!

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Thanks Randy!

Which spring rate did you choose on your mini?

 

I am using Hyper Coil 250/275 lb in the front and Eibach 400 lb in the rear. I went a little stronger in the rear as I do have a bit of audio gear back there.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I have LEDA external, single-adjusts. Great performers, easy to adjust. I also use Hypercoil, 325 front, 250 rear. Went stiffer in front when I added big brake kit to help prevent diving at end of straights heading into turns.

 

I have heard conflicting information from different sources: that the Ledas CAN be used with the stock springs (thus being eligible for SCCA stock autocross classes) and that they can't because the diameter of the Leda shock bodies is too big.

If they are custom valved what specs were used to determine how to set them up for the MINI?

 

While I have a set of 4 on my MCS, I also have a front pair here in my house (long story, I'll spare you...). If a diameter is sought, let me know, and I can easily get you a figure. I do believe that the Leda bodies are a fair amount larger than stock...

 

I might be wrong, but I would question whether you get different diving with bigger brakes. you can only stop (and weight transfer) as much as the tires grip

 

I pretty much thought the same thing. Reason I stayed with 16" wheels and stock calipers (upgraded rotors/pads). However, numerous people finally convinced me to go larger as I got a bit better on the track. The difference was very noticeable. A suspension guru (former crew chief) confirmed the need for more spring, as did others.

As to the tire being a limiting factor, I would whole-heartedly agree if they are losing traction. However, I have never broke my front end loose while braking. This is significant since two of the tracks I go to, Pacific and Spokane have long straights leading to 180's. In Pacific's case it is a downhill brake zone. The rear has done its share of squirming, but not the front.

Even during skills classes at Pacific, where we hammered the brakes at over 100 doing ABS stops, as well as ABS avoidance maneuvers, the front wheels never slid. BTW, very good news for our Minis. We can emergency brake from very high speeds, turn the wheel, avoid a danger and drive on.

The tires, if well-chosen are not a limiting factor. Poorly chosen or very worn and I would agree with you, then the stopping power of the big brakes could not be fully utilized. However, good tires will hold, thus causing the car to load the front more with greater stopping power.

I guess, now that I think of the "traction circle", the greater stopping power would keep the tires planted even more firmly based merely on weight transfer. I would imagine if one went to an overly large spring in the front, they might create a loose situation. I am thinking out loud about the world of the Black Arts, suspension, so please don't hold me to it.

As a side note, it is amazing what spring rates the really good drivers/racers use. They are working in the 400 to 600 range. And I'm talking some Minis as well as the big boys. Personally, I don't think I could keep the car on the track. I'd be twitching all the way through the run-offs and into the woods.

 

sounds like you're having some fun!

I'm still glad I put on that Tarox big brake kit, front and rear, and I have 16" rims.

since this thread was about Leda, my rears are puking oil big time, both of them.

 

John, funny you should mention. My right rear is in transit back from Karl/Leda as we speak. He said they fully inspected it, but found no problems. No nicks on rods, seals, etc. Well, I guess one of the initial attractions were that they are rebuildable. Just didn't hope to have to do it for a while longer.

 

since you reported no sliding under braking, I would assume that is the ABS functioning, therefore is it impossible to fully lock these brakes anyway?

 

True regarding the brakes. However, to your earlier point I think you can break the tires loose whether under hard, threshold braking or ABS braking. I personally haven't done it with my fronts, but I have gotten my rears loose. One reason I wanted more front spring to achieve better front to rear balance.

Again, I think if I were on worse tires I could probably get some front slide. Of course, if I get a brain cramp and don't brake in a straight line then all bets are off, as is the car for that matter.

 

Nearly & jlm, how many miles, about, did you have on your Ledas when you noticed oil loss?

This I can assure you is not uncommon. Made public in the forums (here & MINI2) are gowest and dpayne1 also... And I'm aware of another who has not yet posted his experience, so I'll keep the identity anonymous, assuming he wants such...
I mention this because in all instances that I'm aware of, this type of failure is deemed to be "premature." Karl (Racer's Edge) shared with me some time ago via email that with Ledas one can expect 5 track seasons, and for on the public roads 24 to 30k miles is typically seen...

I was contemplating between these and the PSS9's, and about the only thing that I liked about the Bilsteins, over the Ledas, and that kept them in consideration, was their claimed durability. Thus my questioning to Karl for clarification...

When shared with Randy, he said that 5 track seasons is tantamount to much more than 30k miles of street use. Figuring on it lasting more than two years until maintenance (in my case), I went with the Ledas also. I noted the install date and mileage, and I only have about 4k miles now, and all is fine. But given the feedback thus far, and not many of us MINI guys have Ledas (the oil-filled ones), I'm starting to realize that they might not be as durable as originally thought...

Curious to hear how many miles (track and/or street) your Ledas have endured...

 

Hey, Tony. Had to figure it out, but here goes.

Put them on about this time last year. Have done about 21,000 miles with 17 trackdays. They average about 200 miles. So, that's about 3,400 miles on the track.

Three out of four of my dampers are fine. Just the right rear leaked and Karl couldn't see why. Freak deal he said. So, I guess the durability is pretty good so far.

You may get a little weepage near the top, basically from the action of the rod I believe. However, you will know the difference between that and a leak.

 

Thanks for the quick confirm Nearly! So, about 18k street miles, and about 3k on the track...

A little loss of oil at the rod/body entry point is sort of what I was expecting to see as a sign that a rebuild would be necessary. However, in the instances I referenced above, including you and jlm, it was massive amounts of oil being dumped. If this is "normal" or to be expected, it sounds like a design failure to me.

Heck, I've never had any units this nice before, so if all such coilovers fail in this fashion, then I apologize for my focus on this... it just doesn't seem right. And, it sounds dangerous to have this quantity of oil being lost, especially in the area of the brakes, or on a track.

The reality is, whether 1, 2 or all 4 go, they all should be rebuilt. It would suck to have to hassle with the removal, 1-2 week down time, re-install, to then do it all over again when the next one fails just afterwards. Re-build costs are about 95 to 100 dollars each, if I recall correctly...

So, is a new seal being installed or what exactly was done to remedy the situation? Thanks.

 

The one that went bad on me wasn't "normal", that's for sure. I only talked to Karl for a short time on Friday, but I'll try to ask him tomorrow a bit more about the problem. However, he seemed to indicate that they couldn't see anything.

The rebuild entailed the following: 14 mm Gas kit (pressure, O-ring, wipper), O-ring for end cap and O-ring for floating piston. Plus some shock oil, of course.

I thought about rebuilding them all, but decided against it. I also had the left rear rebuilt for an unrelated issue. I was repositioning the hose and let some oil out. Need a more delicate touch on the nut. My bad. So basically I had the rears down now, will revisit the fronts at another time. Your strategy maybe a better idea, but we were also doing stuff up front and I just didn't want to deal with them. We were tired.

 

I totally understand your situation. Sounds like O-ring failure is the culprit. If so, it would seem that a different O-ring might be in order... Oh well, please do share if you incur any other failures. I will be monitoring mine as well...

 

i have about 4000 miles on my Ledas, one or two autocrossesm no track days. the driver's side is completely soaked: shock body, spring, ABS sensor, brake back plate, but not the rotor or caliper. the pass side is not as oily, bet enough that drips are hanging off the loop of the abs sensor cable.

I haven't been driving the car much since I last checked the corner weighting (december?) due to winter-ugg-and only noticed it when I put it up on Helix lift yesterday to sort out a failed abs sensor (still not sorted out.)

to fix it, the car has to be set up on stands, the shocks pulled and springs removed, send them back to Karl, etc. a pia to be sure.

Leaky Ledas...I may have to agree. How come Randy recommends these if so many have had problems? Is he so lucky to get good ones? these set me back a fair amount of dough.

 

Both Randy and Peter run with Ledas, and the last reports from them have been very favorable. With that said, they both have the gas-emulsified units, not oil. I do know that Randy tested the oils, and was very pleased. But if issues don't surface until 4k+ miles later, he would have then never experienced this...

FWIW, I searched on Leda durability or longevity issues with other makes, and found nothing of note. Again, maybe just something unique to our application. Simply replacing the failed component with a like one doesn't seem like a satisfactory solution to me. I don't want this to be a yearly formality. jlm, let me/us know what Karl has to say about this.

To date, Nearly's 21k is by far the most I've seen on a failure, yours being the lowest, and the rest in the "teens." If I would have been aware of these most recent occurrences (jlm and Nearly), I would have mentioned it to Randy last night to get his input. I think there are enough data points now to safely say that this is not by any stretch an isolated event...

 

I have had the oil filled Ledas on my car for almost 70,000 miles. the fronts are perfect, but both rears weeped slightly. I noticed a little oil on the strut body near the top, only enough to make the dust look damp.

 

Motoring, that's what I like to hear!!! Wow, you do plenty of driving, sorry, motoring . So, in those 70,000 miles, did you ever have a rebuild or revalve done?

 

Let me add my recent events to the discussion. First off let me say that Karl did a excellent job service wise . He did a one day turn around on my re build , there was no charge and he got them back to me on time. He feels that the problem here may have been the type of seal they were using at one time and no longer use. The specs on my case are 13k miles on the shocks, a few track days and lots of canyon miles. Left front shock dry, top of right front shock body covered with oil and some residue dripping down, left rear shock empty of oil, right rear shock body covered with oil. Both rear shocks left oil pools on the garage floor. The shocks perform very well , much better than the previous set of KW coilovers that I had on for at least 20kmiles. I do know that the canyons we run in are as hard or harder than some tracks but I hope that the new seals do the job and I get at least the 25k miles that would be " normal " for these units. On a side note my partner Peter has had them on his car a lot longer than I have and has had no problems whatsoever.

randy
M7 Tuning.com

 

Randy, thank you for sharing your experiences also. It is reassuring to hear that it may be seal that Leda is no longer using. Confirmation of that would be nice to know though... Being that mine were made recently, I'll set aside those fears for now...

I'll also add that Karl is a true professional. He had FedEx come to my door to pick-up my Ledas, he fixed them same day, and over-nighted them back - also free of charge. There is no doubt that the service is exceptional, as are the ability of these coilovers! That was never in question... The durability, given shared experiences, has been though. New seals or O-rings... it may no longer be an issue now

 

Just want to further clarify on my end also. Just one strange problem after a lot of miles and abuse. Karl was also super with his service (no charge) and turnaround. He has always been helpful.

My two fronts are much like Motoring described, a bit of weepage that makes the dust stick. Nothing I am concerned about.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the Ledas performance, ride and height adjustability are tremendous.