I installed a set of H-Sport springs and the comp rear sway over the weekend. First off, let me say that Hotchkis put together a great package. These springs and sway match up quite well to the Delphi struts. However, I've picked up a mild vibration under acceleration since the install. The vibration feels drivetrain related and occurs at different engine speeds and in different gears depending on how many passengers are in the car (i.e how much weight). I feel it most in the floor pan of the car. I have double checked the install. Everything looks to be in order and torqued to spec. The alignment is right where I want it. No crazy toe in/out and the camber is resonable given that I'm not running plates. I did a search of this topic and only found two relevent hits:

RichCarroll on the 15th of Jan.

&

adis_daddy on the 5th of Nov. 04

Has anyone else had this issue? I'm gonna get under the car again tonight to triple check my install. Ryephile mentions in one post that he too had a slight vibration that was more noticable with lighter wheels. I'm currently running a set of R81's with all-seasons for snow travel. This is a very light combination. Maybe I'll toss the S-Heavies back on and go for a quick spin. This almost feels like out of balance half shafts. It's not the CV's as I'm not feeling vibration in the corners and there's no clicking. I've seen in the past with lowered RWD vehicles (particulary ones with limited slips) where a vibration occurs as a result of the half shaft binding ever so slighly. But that is usually a case where the person has lowered the car so much that the inner CV is lower than the outer. The only other thing I can think of is that the exhaust is hitting just a bit. I'm still running the factory exhaust which has always resonated against the bottom of the car when the weather changes abruptly. I always associated it with the german rubber exhaust hangers not liking temperature changes. Heck... I'm grasping at straws at this point.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Anyone?

 

I think you may have mention the reason in your post. I have also lowered my car but with M7 springs. The result was a vibration between 25 and 30 mph under acceleration. What I did to reduce the vibration was to increase the travel in the strut by placing washers under the upper spring perch and replace the strut mount. The reason for the increase in travel was raise the car since the half shafts bind under load when the car is lowered to much. One comment I consisantly have heard is that cars with lower miles or camber plates do not have the virbation. Oh and I have the S-lites on currently. Hope this helps.

 

I have installed 6 sets of springs on friends Mini's. 4 of them had a vibration after. They all went away after a few weeks of driving. Actully waiting to hear back on the last one I did this past weekend. I did adis_daddy's and his went away too. Not sure why, but give it a week and see if it's better.

 

Thanks for the post guys! I'll take a look at the upper perches next weekend. I'll give it next week and see if this goes away.

 

I never had vibrations on my H-Sports.... or any noise for that matter.

humm...

 

I have installed dozens and dozens of H-Sports on '02 through '05 cars, and haven't had any issues.


Here are some things I'd check:

Make sure the rubber locators on the top and bottom of the springs are proerly placed - they only go one way correctly.

Make sure the swaybar droplinks are tight (something it sounds like you already looked at).

Make sure the toe wasn't thrown off.

Check the upper rear mounts (the two 13mm socket bolts) to make sure they are tight.

Check the washer in the rear that the spring hat sits on to make sure the shouldered side is down.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

I don't think springs can cause vibration unless they're being acted upon. Something else is to blame.

 

Make sure the rubber locators on the top and bottom of the springs are proerly placed - they only go one way correctly. -Check

Make sure the swaybar droplinks are tight (something it sounds like you already looked at). -Check

Make sure the toe wasn't thrown off. -Looks good, did the string alignment for now

Check the upper rear mounts (the two 13mm socket bolts) to make sure they are tight. -I'll double check the rear this weekend

Check the washer in the rear that the spring hat sits on to make sure the shouldered side is down. -I'm almost 100% positive this is correct on my install

Thanks for the tips Randy. The vibration really feels centered at the front of the car. It's most noticeable at around 27 to 31 mph (indicated). Then it goes away. It returns at a higher frequency around 70mph. And it only occurs under throttle. I don't feel it in the steering wheel just in the floor.. I have no doubt that the H-Sport springs and sway are well engineered. So it's something I've over looked. This install is a no-brainer. Perhaps I wasn't using enough grey-matter the first time around. I'll probably pull the front struts back out this weekend just to be safe.

 

The other thing you may want to look at is a simple one - the wheel didn't lose a weight did it? It doesn't quite jive with the under throttle thing, but maybe the weight transfer under throttle lifts just enough to uncover an issue.


Finally, and I know you have checked the torque, the 21mm top nut may not be completely tight - I've even seen them work loose on cars done at the dealer. Hold the strut rod while tighteing the nut (I know - no brainer). This isn't just info for you, as you sound like you have the bases covered on that front, but for foils looking at doing the install too.

Hope that helps, and let us know what you find!

Randy

 

I am having this same problem!

 

OK... I've got the car in the air right now. I re-torqued all 4 16mm rear subframe bolts. They were fine. I also checked 13mm bolts for the rear sway mounts, the 21mm lower strut mount, and the 13mm upper rear spring perch mounts. They were fine as well. So I moved to the front. For starters I double checked the tightness of the 21mm strut nut. They were fine on both sides. Next I pulled the front sway bar end links off and took the car for a short trip around the block to see if they were binding. The vibration was unchanged. Next I pulled the drivers side front strut and double checked the assembly order and spring placement. It was fine. Once more around the block and the vibration was still there. So I moved to the passenger side and performed the same checks. One final trip around the block and the vibration is still there. <scratching my head on this one>

One item of note... The vibration itself is getting slightly milder. But it's still there and it can be duplicated by short shifting to second at 15mph (indicated), then accelerate mid-throttle to 35. I feel it at about 25 to 31 mph. If I put my foot in it I don't feel it at all. It will also return only under throttle at around 65mph, then it goes away. There is no vibration off throttle. Note: my DSC is turned off.

Short of reinstalling the factory springs as a test, I'm out of ideas. I thought about disconnecting the rear sway. But this vibration is most definitley in the front and is only felt through the accelerator pedal and floor pan. Everything in my being suggests it's the half shafts binding or the CV's running in at a new angle. I ran this theory by a Honda engineer friend who is coming by later this week to drive the car. I'll keep you all posted.

 

Thanks for the update. I still have the same vibration between 25mph and 31mph.

Question, how much of a change is in the angle of the half shafts is there when lowering the car with the M7 springs?

 

MiniS47,

What did your Honda Engineer friend have to say about the vibration? Mine is still doing the same thing and it is driving me nuts! Any input?

JBing

 

i had the exact same problem when i installed the M7 springs about 15K miles ago (i have about 40K now). the vibration was very pronounced and now it is almost gone. it is driveline related, most noticable in 1st and 2nd under a heavy load. the frequency of the vibration is about 3 "thumps" per wheel revolution (proporitonal to road speed). the mini techs are correct. the inner cv joint (comprised of three rollers in three respective grooves) wear a groove in their "happy spot", or where they spend most of their time. in my case, 25K miles of their time. when the angle of the axle is changed, the rollers now are in a different spot and will roll over the groove worn into the inner cage once per revolution, thus making a little "thump".

the statement about the axles being in a bind when lowering the car does not apply to the mini. at stock height the axles are perfectly straight, not angled at all. when you lower your mini, the axles are now pointed up slightly (from the trans up to the wheel), and are actually pulled out of the inner cage just a tad, see? the inner joints slide in and out to change the length of the axle assembly, the outer joints just change angle.

now here's where you will have to visualize a bit: the inner cage is made up of three rollers in three grooves. the rollers are attached to the axle, the grooves are in the cage which is attached to the differential. now with the axle bent and slightly pulled out of the cage, rollers are no longer in the groove that wore into the cage. the one on the bottom is pulled out of the groove onto a non-worn part of the cage, while the one on top is pushed back into the worn part. this happens three times (once for each roller) with each revolution of the axle. each time the roller goes into or out of the groove you will feel a thump. the groove is worn only on one side of the cage, the side that has pressure under acceleration, since this is when the maximum amount of force is applied to the rollers.

i spent about two weeks racking my brain on this. i put the car up on the alignment rack and looked at the axle angles, and i took the boot off of one of the inner cages to feel inside, and i did feel a light "dip". now the bigger question is whether or not this constitutes a deffective part. is this normal wear? possibly. it IS a wear pattern that would not be noticable if we had kept our minis stock (and who wants to do that?). but, since we have lowered our ride, now we feel the wear groove in the inner cage. so did lowering the car cause the vibration? the dealer would say yes, but they would be wrong. lowering the car just made me aware that the rollers were wearing a groove in the cage....which again would not be noticable unless your car is lowered..... see the dilemma?

just would like to add that the vibration is almost gone now...

i am willing to bet that the longer the car was driven at stock height, the worse the vibration after lowering. if you bought your mini and lowered right away, you wouldn't have noticed a thing because there would be no groove worn into the inner cage.

 

Sonichris,

What I would like to know is, is this going to ruin the axles or are we essentially breaking them in at the new ride height?

Thanks for your great input.

jason

 

OK, sorry it's taken me so long to post. At this time, the general consensus is that it's a half-shaft assembly (specfically an inner CV on the passenger side). I had the recent opportunity compare notes with a bone stock 2003 MCS. First off let me say that both cars had similar mileage (highway v. city, and driving style). The "test" car has about 1300 more miles. I was gonna write this wonderful little assessment of my findings, but sonichris's assesment is spot on. Yes, the thought about half-shaft "bind" was very much wrong given the position both pre and post lowering. This notion of CV's wearing into a groove is quite sound. The thing that struck me as odd was how smooth the driveline felt in the "test" car. My car never felt this smooth even when new.

I will be speaking with my service writer at the local Mini dealer to see what he thinks about "warranty issues". I'll try to find out if this has been an issue on any other cars they service. Worst case maybe they'll cut me some slack on the parts and I can install them myself. I agree with the thought that lowering the car shouldn't cause a half shaft/CV to fail. I begin to wonder if there wasn't a defect that was made worse by changing the angle of attack on the bearing surfaces of the CV. This is something that my Honda engineer friend agrees with as well. If this wasn't a defective part, then there would most certainly be a lot of other "complaints" about this vibration. Not like my MCS is the only lowered one out there. :-)

Thanks to sonichris for the post! I'll touch base with you all shortly.

 

I put Alta springs on three weeks ago, and this is a perfect description of my vibration. Only under heavy acceleration, low to mid revs. Not at the usual balance-related speed or frequencies. I was searching here tonight because I was really getting worried about it. My Mini had 20K on it before the springs, which could support the theory that they would have been well worn into the stock angles. Hoping this goes away as described...

Thanks,
Scott

 

jbing:

after you lower your mini, you are essentially wearing a new groove into the cage, which is why the vibration lessens as time goes on. no you will not ruin your axles.

 

I finally have an update! Sorry for the delay in my post. My local Mini dealer had a technician check out the halfshafts. One, he confirmed the theory suggested by "sonichris" and two, they determined that the right side halfshaft was faulty (separate from any posible issues caused by lowering the car). This part was replaced under warranty. I must say that my Cooper has never driven so smoothly. There is a hint of the vibration (only at around 60 mph indicated), Then again, I may be hyper-sentitive at this point. Note: the service writer indicated that this is the first Cooper or MCS they've had any halfshaft issues with.

At any rate, I hope this information helps those who are experiencing this issue.

 

So is this something they should fix under warranty? Is it a faulty part? What if you don't have warranty left? I don't. I'm kind of afraid of the shaking it feels like something is wrooong, is it ok on the car?

 

My vibration came back after a month or so. The dealership reluctantly replaced the opposite half-shaft. The vibration then went away for a few days and then came right back. I've since swapped my H-Sports for a coil-over setup. I have raised the car around 1/4 to 3/8th of an inch from where it sat with the H-Sports and I've had no further issues with the vibration. In my case I did have one faulty half-shaft in the beginning. But even with new half-shafts the vibration was present. If I lower the car with the coil-overs, I can reporduce the vibration at will. Basically, the car was too low. At that ride height, the angle of the half-shafts is a bit too extreme which causes the bearing cages to bind.

If your car is doing the same thing, try swapping the factory springs back in. If the vibration goes away, you know the car is too low. If the vibration is still there, check wheel/tire balance and alignment.

Good luck!

 

Crap, well I've seen MINI's lower, it shouldn't be a problem?!

 

Agreed. I've seen some crazy low Minis and have always wondered if they just didn't notice the vibration. I was visiting a friend in Atlanta over the Summer and her Mini is a touch lower than mine. Her's is an 02' model. But it does have the same vibration. It wasn't nearly as noticable in her car though. Perhaps because I was a passenger? I complained about this vibration to firends who thought I was smoking crack until they drove the car.

 

I added to another thread about this. I installed Megans. The vibration eminates from the passenger side under acceleration in any gear; it is most pronounced in the lower gears as one might expect. The car is 3/4" lower than stock. I set the dampers at full hard to full soft. The vibration becomes very faint at full soft and very apparent at full hard - the Megans have a mono-ball upper front mount, so some grainyness gets into the steering anyway.

I've got about 600 miles on the set up and the vibration is not going away. I was extremely carefull with the axles and CV joints during the install.

So, I've no idea, but this appears to be a random, albeit, an obvious condition.