I know this is kind of a weird question but I'm thinking about ordering custom swift springs with the BC Racing coilovers and this lead me to think that, if I get a stiffer rear spring rate then I won't need a stiffer rear swaybar, correct?

I guess a better way to look at this is to compare the pros and cons of either. I understand that a stiffer spring will make a stiffer ride, while the stiffer RSB won't have that much of a stiffer ride compared to the springs, but is that all?

If it is that simple then I'd rather save the money on the RSB and get the stiffer rear springs.

Any thoughts or experiences?


Thanks

Josh

 

You got it. Get an adjustable RSB and then you can play with the different setting. IF you do the springs you are stuck with it. If this is a street car mostly you will hate the stiffer ride over time. Just my opinion.

 

+1 gazillion....

Have you read this? It's a bit thick for casual interest, but darned useful for the seriously curious.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

I'd be cautious about getting stiffer springs for a mostly street car too. A big swaybar won't give you the harsh feel that a really stiff spring will. I would buy a big real sway bar like the H-sport comp bar and stick with the regular springs that are normally sold with the coilovers you're buying. Also, I wouldn't consider a couple of track days a year as something to warrant the spring upgrade. You're still going to be feeling the harshness every day you drive

 

+1 Sway bar!! Made the funnest buggy in the world to drive ten times funner.

 

I think that I have read someone did this with BC coil overs, maybe it was Sacred Disorder?

Another advantage of the RSB is that it is adjustable if you are not happy. If the springs are not what you want, you need another set of springs.

Mike

 

Thanks Charlie, there's tons of good information there. I bookmarked it and will have a read after work.

Cheers

Josh

 

I'll mix it up and say BOTH! I have the BC Coilovers and installed 8K front and rear Swift springs. I also have the Tarret rear sway bar. Gotta say I really love the combination. It's really not that much harsher than stock at all. The stiffer rear springs really helped with handling, more-so than a sway bar can. Sway bars are for fine tuning. You can always swap back to your stock springs if you don't like it. That's my .02

 

Thanks for you input. I was thinking 8k front and rear is the way to go but I would of assumed having the rear sway bar would make it to stiff and not get that much rear grip.

BTW where did you order your coilovers from? I'm having a hard time finding them with the swift option.

Cheers

 

Good point. Although coilover springs are cheap the re-valving isn't.

 

Def get a rear sway bar, that should have been the first suspension mod.

A rear sway bar will work with the coilovers too. Get the Hsport comp bar if your looking for more rotation, if you still need more after that you can still add stiffer springs but then you are getting away from a street car.

 

I'm running TSW springs with the Alta 19mm bar and it feels pretty balanced but after my track day at Streets of Willow, the suspension was to soft and floaty. This is what brought the question to mind. I might of spent my money on a setup that wasn't ideal for my tastes and I should of sprung for coilovers with custom springs and saved some cash in the long run.

From what I've gathered now is that stiff springs in the rear will help with squat and will probably out preform softer springs with a stiffer sway bar.

Cheers

Josh

 

You should order them directly from BC with the swifts. Its really the only way to go because they will valve the shocks differently for the swifts.

 

8k is pretty stiff. What kind of tires are you running and what size?

- drew

 

How was your car behaving on turn in?

How was the car behaving mid turn?

Your "floaty and soft" issue seems likely due to using the stock dampers with unmatched springs too. The stock dampers aren't exactly track focused. In my opinion, the 19mm rear sway bar is just not enough on the track. It's OK for longer sweeping turns but doesn't rotate the car enough and this is mid turn where the suspension is already in a steady-state condition. I could play with my camber and tire pressures all day long but the root of the problem for me was the swaybar not being thick enough. Other than that, how are you using your stock damper/TSW spring setup to automatically make judgements about how the car will behave with new coilovers? I wouldn't just guess here.

It seems to be you're tackling this backwards. The 25mm swaybar will address steady state cornering understeering issues and then it would be time to tune your coilovers, corner balance, & car setup and most importantly the nut behind the wheel. Diving right to the springs is not the best idea for what you have on your car right now. That would be the last thing I would do since it's not just a quick adjustment like everything else.

 

There are different ways to tackle the problem and what works for a street car on lowering springs is not necessarily the same as what works for a track car with coilovers. Or a street car that sees some track days on coilovers but still wants some comfort.

If comfort is a priority, then yes it can be beneficial to go a little softer on spring rate and then run a larger bar.

IMO on BCs (which do not have the greatest valving) it is a pretty good idea to go softer on springs and then use a larger rear bar. But I can't recommend rates without knowing tire choice.

I don't see any reason to go softer in the rear than the front though. Even rates or slightly rear biased rates are the way to go.

- drew

 

I agree with this. I run R compound tires on the track and autocrosses. I know I could probably benefit a little bit if I bumped my spring rates up to 10K front and rear, but I really feel that 8K front and rear is a great compromise between street and track FOR ME. I do run decently sticky street tires (Pirelli P Zero Nero), so the 8K's work on the street for me, as well. The roads around here are pretty good, and the BC's valving actually feels a good bit better than the Cross coilovers I had previously. Combined with the rear sway bar, I can dial in the attitude of the car for autocross or track duty. I stiffen it up a good bit for autocross to help rotation, and then back it off for track days for a little more stability. 8K might feel harsh if you're looking for comfort, but I don't find it much harsher than the OEM setup on runflats, and if I wanted comfort over performance, I probably wouldn't have purchased a MINI.

 

I just got a track day under my belt at Streets of Willow and thought I'd add some feedback with my current setup.

I'll start with the good stuff. The car behaves very well at the track, I was expecting it to be more of a handful like when I did a AutoX a couple months ago (which I only had put tires on the car). The car turns in nicely, stays planted and inspires confidence all thought out the corner and even more surprising is how easy it is to catch the car when it get away from me. IE: went in to hot on a off camber left hander, the back end jumped out but was able to catch and just slide wide and got back in line with little drama. The tight stuff is where the car shines obviously, catching all the cars in my run group there.

So now for the bad. The car is way to floaty, made me pucker up real good coming up on the fast stuff. It feels as if the car wouldn't be there when I wanted it to. The 2 corners after the fast straights always made me a little nervous. But once I got onto the brakes the car felt planted again. I know some of this is just experience and I'm sure I'll get better. But on the part where the biggest risks are I would like my car to inspire confidence and not have to listen to my manhood. It could use some more rotation on the slow stuff but I wouldn't want to give up the mid speed grip, I'll try the sway bar on the stiffest setting next month at the AutoX event. Lastly is corner exit, I will say having tested the traction control half off and then full off, full off is the way to go for sure. Even at half off it would kick in and use the brakes to keep the car from rotating and was scrubbing speed. So coming out of the corner the car just pushes, I felt the biggest improvement would be on exit. It felt like I couldn't get on the power as early as I wanted to. Tried a couple time but I think the E-diff thing intervened. Instead of spinning the tires like I was expecting, the car would just feel slow and it planted the idea that it's braking the inside tire then as the outside started to lose grip from the power transfer it then brake the outside tire. I know that's kind of the idea but it seems like it's hurting more then helping.

What I've learned was that I think more damping to help with the floaty feeling. But all in all it was much better then I was expecting. I was thinking I'll probably want coilovers after this, but now I'm thinking a Quaife LSD is in order.

Anyways just thought I'd share.

Cheers

BTW I'm running Dunlop Star Specs 205/55/16 on stock wheels.

 

So is this floaty feeling on the straights only? That's the way you made it sounds like before it was time to brake hard for the first turn.

 

Yeah in the straights.

 

Some konis or Bilsteins will fix the floaty feeling.

- drew

 

Are the stock dampers on the MINI that bad? Do you think lowering the car with the TSW springs is still to much even though it's less then an inch?

The price of Koni Yellows is right up to the price of entry level coilover systems. Would having the ability to corner balance the car make up for the quality of damper?

If we keep digging down into the rabbit hole we'll eventually see the light right? :P

 

I'm running TSW springs on 'standard' shocks (not sports). I am pretty happy with the setup for a DD. I have picked up a set of Koni Yellows, but am waiting until the weather gets better to install them. I get almost all of my stuff used, so I do things in a different order than if I was shelling out bucks for new stuff.

It all depends on what you want to do with the car. I figure that if I had coilovers I would keep lowering the car for aesthetics (and perceived lowering of center of gravity) and compromise ground clearance too much. The air dams are taking a beating this winter with snow chunks on the road already.

Mike

 

Having never driven at that track I wouldn't be able to say from experience to compare my own findings. However, if you want to adjust the rate at which the damper reduces oscillation then... adjustable dampers are the way to go.

The more control you want the more you pay. Boy that sucks!