For what it's worth, I agree with frstrtdmac that (to me) the ride isn't that bad, and for the relatively inexpensive cost of the NM springs I love the way they way they make the car look. To me (and I realize that everyone is different) the slightly rougher rear suspension isn't much of an issue.

I also agree with Hujan in that I believe the overly progressive NM rear spring is to blame. The softer winding part of the NM spring certainly feels like it's a lower spring rate than the stock springs. On big bumps it blows right through that soft section of the spring and then hits the bump stops just as the stiffer windings of the spring are coming into play. A shock with more compression damping would certainly control it better, but the root of the problem (as it seems to me, and I could be wrong) could be cured if NM went back to the drawing board and made a rear spring with more of a straight linear spring rate, rather than their way overly progressive rate that they have now.

Also, Hujan, I'm sorry to hear that you're disappointed with the ride as I was (and still am) one of the advocates of the NM springs, so I feel partially responsible for you choosing them. Maybe I'm just immune to ride quality issues after driving lowered cars for the past 25 years, so in hindsight, I probably can't give an objective opinion. Also, the tires I chose are regarded as the smoothest, most comfortable riding tire there is in the "ultra high-performance" category, and I know that they take the edge off of sharp jolts compared to other tires, so maybe that's part of why our car doesn't seem that bad and I don't really mind the NM springs.

 

West Coast Roads>East Coast Roads.

$.02

 

Oh, absolutely no regret or remorse needed. I realize that my comments are coming off as negative, but truth be told I don't regret the NM springs. I am glad I did it and don't mind the ride. I was just responding to "SmithWerks" questions about the behavior of the NM springs on OEM struts.

Despite all the gripes, there is a lot to love about the car with the NM springs. I love the reduction in body roll. I love the way it makes the car look. And it has made the car a lot more fun to drive than before.

Let me also say this: All of the "negatives" one might complain about (rubbing, crashing, bottoming out) are no where near as noticeable or prominent as they were the first week or so on the springs. I attribute this to the fact that, no matter how "perfect" a lowered suspension, the reality is that you have to modify your driving a bit. You can't go barreling through things like you might have before. So I have learned to modify my driving a bit. Also, the car is settling into the springs in a variety of ways, not the least of which is that the fender edge where it occasionally rubs has now worn away such that rubbing is a rare, rare occurrence now.

But this was a thread about the shortcomings of the NM springs and how pairing them with Koni Yellows might improve the springs, so that is why I emphasized the "gripes."

But I am glad I installed the springs and would do so again.

If the OEM suspension was a 5, I rate these a 7, and believe they can get to a 9 with a quality sport strut like the Koni Yellow. (Perhaps a 10 with the strut and a slight modification to the spring rate/layout of the rear spring.)

Sorry if I appeared disappointed, Greg! Your efforts were not wasted, my friend. Not by a long shot.

 

Hujan, do you have the factory sport suspension option(stiffer shocks)?
I should finally be installing my springs next week. My wheels are on order & the arms are already in.
(today Im installing my VIP brackets & my 500 Hella fogs)

As far as KONI, they simply are not yet available for the CM in any variation, at all , period.
No STRT, no sports, no FSD, no coilovers... for any variation of a CM.

NM is simply a dealer for KONI(as I am), If you want to see the listings available which are ZERO, go to the source. KONI. www.koni-na.com Ask them to see what they 'may' develop. A lot of times their site 'asks' for cars for testing. It could simply be a matter of time & demand at the moment.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithWerks

Are the NM/stk dampers crashing over bump? (bottoming out?) this would be because the piston is too long.
Yes. It hits bumps harder than stock, they are more jarring, and there is more bottoming out, especially in back.

Harder than stock because the spring rate is harder, possibly too hard. 390# is very high on a street car. the piston(in factory sport susp. 'may' be shorter than the non sport shocks), either way, if the piston is too long for the additional drop, the factory shocks will be trashed soon enough(damage from lack of travel or from the valving not being great enough to match the 390# spring rate)

Quote:
Is it bouncy? this would be a damper that isnt valved aggressively enough to match the spring rate
Yes, in the rear. It feels bouncy and takes awhile to settle down after big hits and dips. I imagine it's worse when the rear is loaded.

Bouncy, 'wallowing' continuation after dips, etc is because the shock valving is too weak for the spring rate. it simply cant control the spring. The factory sport susp. may be slightly better. I will know next week when I install my springs. I chose the factory sport susp just for this reason, I knew Id be getting springs.

Quote:
Is it hopping over bumps? (worse than the stk susp. does?) this would be the combination of a too still spring(rate to height for actual vehicle wt.(overly sprung). or a combination of stiff spring/stiff shock (not enough compression) or the possibility its reaching max travel/compression & no longer absorbing impact & therefore the tire is acting as the absorber & 'bouncing/hopping' over bumps, (like a highly inflated basketball)

YES!!! This, along with crashing, is my chief concern. It is slightly worse than the stock suspension with run flats. When I changed tires, the skipping was greatly reduced, only to return with vengeance with the NM springs.

The tires act as the first but of damping. a lower profile, heavier wheel or stiffer sidewall will contribute to a harsher ride. IIRC your set up is lighter & anything should have a softer sidewall than the RF's.
Looking at the KW drop & design of the system, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of rear suspension travel to begin with. Subtract an inch or 2 & the lack of travel will force bottoming out. Possibly why NM created such a high spring rate. stiffer spring=less likely chance of spring fully compressing.. at the cost of being overly harsh & hopping on bad road surfaces... that are not exactly present in Southern California as they are in the NY metro area.

My perception is that the front suspension is actually not bad, except for its role in the skippiness and crashing. But the front is oretty good. The rear is another story and bottoms out and is bouncy, which I find odd because all the weight is up front. NM may have missed the target on the rear springs, either because of spring rate or because they made it progressive instead of linear like the OEM suspension.

I agree, but i think the rears have less travel. so, a linear spring may offer less of a comfort zone yet still have to be highly sprung in order to not bottom out from compression.


The initial part of the progressive spring is so light that you blow through it quickly, and find yourself with even less spring than you had before. I do believe that A LOT of these issues could be solved by going with a proper strut like the Koni Yellow. Koni obviously will not design their strut with the NM spring specifically in mind, but NM (which sells Koni struts exclusively on their website) probably designed their springs with Koni in mind.

Driving lowered cars for nearly 22yrs(every single one, all dailys) I have quite a bit of personal spring experience. I have tried many different brand combos as well. I personally believe H&R has mastered the progressive spring. Being they have the optimal rate of progression.
(ie some are really soft then progress to full rate over a short amount of travel. I think H&R does a great job at this transition)

Now it is just a waiting game, I suppose.
I think agree, the manufactures have a lot of models to deal with & in time there will be CM offerings.

Quote:
*For a niche market vehicle with essentially 6 combinations of shock varieties its a lot for the aftermarket to invest in at this time. Especially since in the first 3yrs most ppl wont replace these components due to warranty(free under warranty, fear of voiding, or simply not in need of replacement).

In time there will be more, better options available.
I am not so sure about all that. Take KW for example. They have a set for the ALL4 but not the FWD. Why? I mean, they are half way to developing a set for the FWD, since the front shocks should be interchangeable. As for the rears, it's the same car except the weight might be a little different. They should be able to make the adjustment on a grease board and have the new specs for the FWD shock immediately. Point is, if they wanted to do it, they could.

I don't buy the argument that the market is slow because people are not yet replacing parts. The type of people who buy aftermarket performance parts don't do so because their OEM equipment finally wore out. I mean, no one is going, "Hmm. My factory shocks and struts finally died after 60,000 miles. What about these KW coilover things? They sure are purdy looking!"


KW sells worldwide, its possible worldwide sales of ALL4's are greater than FWD. (IDK?) Its also reverse engineering. The nonS FWD owners 'cheaped out', do you think they will buy a $1000 suspension? They didnt even opt for the factory Sport susp.
I do, I'm in the retail market. People dont want to 'void' warranties. Especially the older crowd who has a $30+K MINI.

People who wait to replace worn OEM parts replace them with . . . OEM parts. Modders start modding as soon as they buy the car. This car has been on the road for 2 years and the pickings are stil slim.

No they dont, not always. The OEM stuff is usually not the best option. Its typically pricier & not the best option. A typical OE upgrade would be Bilstein TC(cheaper than the Sachs & better in all ways, same for Koni STRT, a cheap upgrade). People will upgrade to springs because it wont void the warranty like a complete suspension(ie coilover would).. or so is the impression.

So I guess what it comes down to is companies' perception that Countrymen owners are not the modding type. This is, of course, a self-reinforcing perception, since their belief leads them to not offer any parts, so there are no sales, and then there is more perception that Countryman owners are not the modding type.

Unfortunately there is probably some truth to this. Keep sending email inquires to the Manufacturers, not the retailers & they may see the light.

Funny thing: Outside of these boards, the public perception is that the two-door versions of the Coopers are "chick" cars built more to be small and cute than fast and aggressive. I must admit that 8/10 drivers I see in Coopers are women. All my friends and co-workers looked at me skeptically and groaned when I announced I was getting a Mini. When they saw it was the bigger 4-door, they were supportive.

I think Mini is sensitive to this effect and it is perhaps no accident that the bigger options--the ClubMAN and CountryMAN--have been expressly masculine.
I agree, I am a 25yr VW/Audi owner. I always liked the MINI, but the Countryman finally did it for me.

I am fairly confident saying that men are far more likely to performance mod than women. And I think the Countryman may be the most man-friendly Mini yet. For many men, the Countryman is our "gateway drug" into the Mini world. I think the strong sales are due, in part, to that fact.

The point is that I believe the paltry aftermarket options reflect a conscious decision to avoid the Countryman based on perception that Countrymen owners are not the modding type. However, logic might suggest that, as a result of its masculine appeal, it has the potential to be the most heavily modded of all Cooper models if the options were there.

The aftermarket has plenty of offerings for the Cooper, They're probably confused as to why (& how many)CM owners will want to lower... an SUV.
We need more enthusiasts, create demand, they will fill it.

 

FWIW, Bilstein is now showing on their site the B4 (OE replacement) and B6 (HD) applications for the Countryman, but only for the front end right now.

Still waiting on Koni....I'm told soon...really soon...

 

So I talked to Koni in Europe the other day.. Good news bad news.. 1st. Koni isn't really into doing much for this car due to the lack of sales in both Europe and US markets of people lowering and racing these.. The majority of the sales for this car is to families etc.. Good news is that in Japan and asain markets, most the people buying these to supe them up.. They havent really spent time thinking to develop some shocks for these yet since it is low priority on their list.. So we just keep on waiting.. :(

 

So Shoof says soon, and frstrdtmac says they haven't started yet. Where did you get your info, Shoof? I am hoping you are right.

 

To make sure everyone knows and not to start any confusion.. Lets clarify.. Soon = maybe the next year or so.. Not even started = they have thought about it, mocked stuff up but no official production.

Basically we are saying the same things.. probably be 1-1.5 years unless there is some serious traction that occurs on the countryman sooner!!

 

Info given to me by NM...

 

I'm not going to put any words in Shoof's mouth, but "really soon" makes me think <6 months. Obviously, Shoof is getting that second hand from the guys at NM but there is definitely a difference between "really soon" (per NM) and "they havent really spent time thinking to develop some shocks for these yet since it is low priority on their list" (per Koni).

Not saying either of you guys (or your sources) are lying, but it there does seem to be a bit of discrepancy.

 

I think i give up on the NM springs, Im going to go back to stock. My wife is starting to refuse riding in the CM and my rear passengers all complain.

I have my m-coupe on coilovers, and if i want to drive fast, I'll use that car. Sadly enough, the m-coupe on coils is softer riding than the CM is on NM springs.

 

How about this for Koni, we all just wait and see. We cant accelerate the process anyways, so we are all at a stand still

 

I am loving the NM springs more each day. Rubbing is all but nonexistent now, except on the most significant G-outs at high speed where I was already rubbing pre-springs. The handling is much improved and the car is more fun to drive than stock. Things would be even better with a set of Konis on there, but I like this setup better than stock.

Perhaps with a good sway bar and strut bar, things can get even more go-kart like.