I am looking seriously at the PSS10 as a "compromise" coilover for my DD that is used occasionally on the track and for autox. The big plus to these over the V2s is the monotube and the bottom adjustment. While the FSDs are fantatic on the street, I am over driving them and the stock spring combination on the track and autox. I do both of these for fun so I am not at the AST 5100 or Cross race option yet.

I am not looking for a lot of drop, nor does a "little stiff" bother me, but I am also not looking to turn my DD into a rock. Just a modest improvement over what I have. And keep the suspension from crashing into the stops on pot holes which the FSDs handle nicely.

Is there anyone out there with track experience with the Bilstein coilovers? I have found threads about the V2 and these have a lot of compliments for both track and street. But I have found little about the PSS10s in this application (lots of "really good", but not related to track/autox). My other mods are listed in my signature.

Let the comments fly

 

I ran the PSS9's on the race car for a long time and they were great, plus I never had an issue so they are reliable. Off the shelf they are really good down the road you can always change out the springs to stiffen them up.

 

Hadn't thought about the "change spring" option...good point.

 

Eddie, did you talk with s-driver. He runs BC coils with Swift springs. A little stiff for my liking but I think he is at 450 or 500 in/lb F and 650 in/lb R. He seems to do pretty well with that setup. You have been in his car so you kind of know how it feels.

Also pm andyroo on NAM. He has a lot of experience with coils.

Besides the AST, I would also consider the KW clubsport. BTW, I also like the Bilsteins.

 

I had Bc coilovers on my car for 7000 miles and loved the ride and handling .call mike at bc racing north america he will give you a deal.

 

Hi,

I have a R53 race / rally car that has done around 40,000 miles of rallying / racing, and out of that 30,000 has been with the PSS9's.

I also have a R56 JCW rally car that has PSS9's that has done around 3,000 miles of rallying / racing.

Alltogether that is a huge amount of racing, and I have a lot of experience with them.

The bilsteins are a good product. One great thing about them is they are incredibly tough and robust. The set that has done 30k are still in great condition. We took them off and dynoed them around 18 months ago, and they were still to spec.

I really like the ease of adjustment, especially the rear. It is easy to make adjustments quickly inbetween sessions, or even on brief pitstops etc, which is especially useful if it is wet.

The levels of adjustment are also quite good, and make significant differences.

Out of the box they are pretty good, and much better than stock. For the occasional track day you will get excellent results out of the box, without needing to change anything, and also get improved street handling. However, if you are serious about racing you will end up changing the springs (especially on the front). The stock valving can cope pretty well with spring changes. However, if you are really serious you will probably end up revalving them eventually to your desired specs.

They only adjust combined bump / rebound. This is probably an advantage for a beginner / intermediate track car, as it keeps things simple, but still allows significant adjustment. For the really serious person, it is a disadvantage. However, you can get them revalved to virtually whatever spec of bump and rebound you want.

One disadvantage of having the adjusters on the bottom is they tend to get very dirty. Grit gets underneath the adjuster, making adjustment difficult. Also, over the years I have lost several adjusters. These problems are minimised by keeping the protective covers on, but that makes it harder to adjust. I believe the PSS10 are an improvement in this regard.

One thing to be aware of, I could not get the PSS9 to fit on the front of the R56 with the standard "beehive" spring without rubbing, so I had to replace this with a thinner coil. Also, you need to buy inserts for the rear control arms.

Both the PSS bilsteins and KW products are excellent products of similar performance. I like the ease of adjustability of the PSS. Also, I have a bilstein workshop nearby that can service and revalve the shocks cheaply for me, which is the main reason I have stuck with them.

Robbo

 

Robbo---
Great - that is the type of info I was looking for.
About the "beehive" spring...did that rub because of camber changes you made or with the stock Mini camber? I had expected that it would fit the top Mini spring plate and therefore would be about the same diameter. The stock springs I have don't rub even with the camber I have added.

2009R56JCW --- thanks,
I am aware of several drivers with BC setups... their comments have been that street ride is rough - could be springs. But worth looking into.

 

Hi,

It wouldn't fit without rubbing on the stock top plates.

However, just to make it clear, I was trying to fit a set of PSS9's on the R56. Bilstein recommends the PSS9 for the R53, but it is not specifically sold for the R56.

The PSS10 is sold specifically for the R56, so I assume that would be easier to fit.

Robbo

 

I actually have Hypercoil springs installed on my BC coilovers now. I believe they are 400F and 600/650R - I can't remember now. Greg V (Onasled) swapped them out for me after dynoing my stock BC springs because they were not a well matched set. Dyno numbers were not very consistent between the BC's...The Hypercoils dyno'd really well.


They definitely took some getting used to but I got used to them quick enough. Problem is that the BC's are not valved for those new springs (especially the rears) so the setup is not ideal at the moment. If I ever get new R6's I should be able to eclipse my best times from before - right now I can only match them.

Eddie....if you'd like to get in contact with Greg let me know. I do not believe you can reach him on NAM currently...

 

Robbo, I did not think the Mini can do 40K rally/race miles. How many pads/tires and shock rebuilds did you go through?

I have only done 4K track miles and the car is starting to feel a lot of age.

 

Hi,

The car is pretty much falling apart, and is becoming unreliable now, which is why I built the new R56 The car is a full rally / race car, and is never driven on the street and only trailered to events etc. I bought it new in 2002 and have used it as a circuit and rally car since then.

The bilstein shocks have never been rebuilt. As I mentioned in the original post they have been taken off once and checked, but were all still within spec and nothing really needed doing apart from cleaning them!

I have lost track of how many sets of tyres and brake pads I've gone through. The tyres would be well into the hundreds, and probably 30 or more sets of pads.

The car has been pretty good. The enigine has been rebuilt once, not that there was a problem, we just decided to rebuild it. Gearbox has been replaced once, one clutch replaced.

The things that have failed the most have been suspension components, particularily bushings and suspension attachment points. I've replaced the whole rear suspension once. All the attachment points are shot, and have been helicoiled multiple times. There are multiple bolts in the suspension that keep coming loose etc etc.

There are also multiple electrical gremlins developing in the car, which I think is just that the car has been shaken to bits, and lots of circuit boards etc are getting cracked or dry joints etc.

I had a few accidents in the car, including one into the wall off the main straight at 110mph. The car was pretty bent after that, but we rebuilt it.

The car has been pretty good though. Can't complain about 40,000 miles of racing!! However, if something major goes wrong now, eg engine failure or crash etc, I will "retire" the car.

Robbo

 

Still I think you have lucked out and have a pretty good track car. I am not sure the r56 will perform as well given what yours went through.

Getting back to stock suspension, the Mini suspension is really made in an inferior way. Engineering wise, it is decent. Shocks are pretty poor. And parts are expensive. I think Eddie is just getting to know this now.

 

The Bilsteins would be a much better race or street option than BCs...only drawback is price. For that matter, they'd be a better option than Cross and as good as AST depending on your usage and using the proper spring rates. Off the shelf the PSS series has generally been a great option for a street car with some just for fun track use throw in. As robbo said replace the springs and maybe revalve them and you can have a hardcore set-up that's hard to match. I agree with everything he said.

- drew

 

I took a look at BC Racing - NA...They have two versions that look interesting. The Ram type is an inverted mono tube, but I can't tell where the adjustments are (typically on the bottom), but none listed for Minis. The BR is a conventional arrangement with the adjustment on the top (at least for the front). I assume the rear is the same, which means difficulty in getting to it. But one thing I like is the single adjustment affect both compression and rebound the same as the PSS10. Price is good too...More to think about.

Remember, right now the objective is to have a street car that is competent on the track not the other way around.

 

The valving on the BC's is going to be a lot worse than the Bilsteins. That's a big deal if your roads (or tracks) aren't perfectly smooth.

 

I have always heard good things about Bilsteins, which is why I am thinking about them. I appreciate the input from everyone, including the other options such as the BCs. I have driven a Mini with the ASTs and know that if I had the funds, that would be my setup of choice. But cost wise I don't believe that is an option available to me...the PSS10s would about max me out. I am also not tracking that much, so for now I am looking for competence in the suspension on the track which I feel is missing from my current setup. Being able to respring the Bilsteins (or the other coilovers) is a nice option without having to break the bank a second time if I get to that point in my talent.

And, yes, I am learning the expense involved in all the mods I am doing. I am just trying to be smarter about them. The nice thing about being on NAM is there is a good used market for items that don't meet expectations. So you can recover at least some of the original expense if you change something.

It is nice to hear that someone has had a pretty reliable Mini, even if it has been beat upon on the track. It is also interesting to hear what the "limiting" (I won't call them problems as things wear out and that is expected) areas are. At 5 or so track days (these being HPDEs) a year I don't think I will be that hard on the car. But I still like to know what to look for.

 

we seem to be tag teaming this thread...

Why do you say? I am looking for good valving...I don't have good roads and they get worse in the winter. I do drive this thing in the winter.

 

I use Bilstein PSS10 on my R56 JCW. They are a fantastic compromise for the street, but I'm going to go with some stiffer hypercoils in the near future.

They fit perfectly in my car, no rubbing or anything. Best mod on my car

 

Do you track, autocross or both? By your signature it looks like you have a nice setup for either. I miss the LSD, but dealing with it.

How would you compare the stiffness of the spring that come with the Bilsteins to the JCW springs? What's moving you to a stiffer spring?

 

I occasionally track, but have stopped recently due to an engine problem that I cannot diagnose. As soon as I fix it, I'm going to hit the track a lot more.

I think the standard springs are quite soft, and that they are geared more towards street driving. I have used 6kg springs on the track, and don't think they are stiff enough for my use. pss10 are 5kg springs I think. I also don't like progressive springs.

 

Sorry to hear about engine problems...

I thought they looked like progressive springs and I have heard less than complimentary things about them for the track. That makes the KW V2s a little more attractive right out of the box. But then there is the ease of adjustment...But it still seems the Bilsteins are a good option.

 

Hey guys bought the Pss10s off someone here on NAM and I was wondering what you have it set to for street use and what you set it to for track purposes?

 

I set it to 1 to 3 all around for street and 6 or 7 for autocross.

 

Hey thanks Morris!
I set them at 5 and 5 to start but the car has aftermarket control arms vorshlag camber plates and the JCW 19mm sway bars. It feels like the car has tons of rebound. Could that be from setting the dampers too stiff?
Did you have "bouncy, bouncy" problems when setting them to 6 or 7?

 

Hahaha... Yeah, I had them at 5 and the car was bouncy. Then I switched them to 6 or 7 and the ride was unbearable. I only use 1 for daily driving and mess with the selector only when doing autocross events. I feel that they are finally settling a little now. I only have about 2000 miles on them since I put them on last august. I have Hotchkis control arms, IE camber plates, and NM sway bar (that I am thinking to switch to full soft). I will probably try Ohlins next after this season is over.