So... anyone out there running NM springs with Koni Yellows, FSDs, or Bilstein shocks, and anyone running JCW suspension.... HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?!??! hows snap oversteer, hows feel on roads, smooth and rough. cornering? braking? My curiosity is high as can be... and i REALLY want to know whether to get rid of my coilovers for a JCW suspension setup or an NM setup with FSDs (or any other shock replacement)

 

1.) afaik, you can't use the FSD's with any lowering spring. They are for stock springs only.

2.)The R56 is really pretty limited as far as suspension travel goes. You really can't slam them and expect it to drive well on the street. Notice I said street... Most race tracks don't have speedbumps, driveways and pot holes. About the most you can reasonable live with is about an inch.

About the most street friendly suspension I've been seeing is Texas Speedwerks springs (now Way Motoring) and Billy HD's.

I'm still trying to figure out why the Bilstein Sports are $300 more than the HD's? They seem to be the same valveing but the Sport is a shorter shaft. Seriously, it can't cost that much to make a shorter shaft...

Oh and you are really going to have to crank up a rear anti roll bar before you trailing throttle oversteer. TTO...

 

I'm getting the koni kit that's paired with eibach springs, that kit has a longer shaft for the lowering spring... So that wouldn't be a problem... Bilstein was another choice I was considering... But considering I'm running koni coilovers and love them(in the marketplace btw...) if I can I'd like to stick with them! I was also considering jcw suspension pieces...

 

Can you share the basics on this???

This is the answer (from today) from NM about your write up:

Hi Steven,

We have been selling FSD with our springs for 2-3 years now and the results have been, fortunately, 100% good. However, I alway like to ask customers on the goal they are trying to achieve by replacing the shocks/struts.

(a) 35% comfort - 65% handling
(b) 65% comfort - 35% handling
(c) replacing blown stock shocks/struts and want to retain similar OE comfort.

First of all, using NM performance springs will give you better and firmer handling across the board because of the slight higher spring rates. Replacing the shocks will take it to the next level. If the goal is either (b) or (c) or both, then FSD will be ideal for you. But if you are looking for (a), better handling around canyon twisties or possibly occasional autox, then I highly recommend the KONI Sport which has adjustable valving.

One strong recommendation, never buy OEM shocks! overpriced and not lifetime warranty like KONIs or Bilsteins.

I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Jerry T
NM Eng.
805.388.7171 tel.
805.388.0030 fax.

 

Read the Koni web site... How hard is that?

 

I did:

(From Koni.com)
FSD Shocks


KONl`s latest technology accomplishes the task that has eluded most shock makers until now - great handling + excellent ride quality:

• > Excellent ride quality on all road surfaces
  > Available for most newer cars - more coming
  > Pair with Eibach springs for 1"-1.5" lowering
  > Gold metallic finish shocks
  > Dark metallic gray springs in kits
  > Less expensive than electronic systems
  > Lifetime Warranty
  
  Drive the car you love every day.

 

whihc is why i'm sure they'll work fine with NM Springs or TSWs for that matter... cuz they will lower the same amount or LESS than Eibachs...

I'm looking into it because i'm planning on getting rid of my coilovers but if possible keep a track able setup... i'm willing to give up a LITTLE bit of ultimate grip for a bit more civility, but i frankly am in LOVE with my coilovers... i just know i need less for family purposes...

anyone know what spring rates the Koni Yellows can handle off the shelf before they need any revalving?

anyone running Bilsteins or JCW suspension?

 

Is this advice for a MINI S or a MINI Justa? I'm curious because the FSD's I put on my R55 S improved the ride and the handling, but I'm still experiencing huge amounts of bumpsteer (no improvement over OEM as far as that's concerned) and am considering Bilstein HD's to help combat this. I'm hoping the ride won't suffer too much. Perhaps springs would also help with this, but I don't want to lower my car.

 

I am running the full JCW suspension and I love it. I upgraded from the regular stock suspension at about 3,000 miles and I have not looked back. They handle much better than stock, offer much more stability at higher speeds, drops about 1/2 inch or so, and feels very refined. I heard someone describe them as something you would expect to find as the sport suspension on a BMW. I have absolutely no complaints and think they should be standard on factory JCWs. I don't think you give up much ride comfort, if any, compared to stock.

 

nice! how's body roll with that suspension kit?

 

I agree with this statement once you replace the run flats with standard tires. The pairing of the JCW suspension with the OE run flats was unbearable for me.

Seems like I see the following here on NAM:

1. You have the stock suspension and you want/need more. You go to lowering springs or different shocks or to coilovers.

2. You got coilovers but maybe that JCW suspension setup is better?

3. You have the JCW suspension but maybe a good set of coilovers is better?

4. Maybe you just have camber plates and you are satisfied.

Too many opinions here on NAM.

 

A few people have taken things apart done some measurements to get some actual facts.

If you want a good "sport" handling set-up that does not require much fiddling with ***** or headaches, Bilstein HDs or Koni Yellows with NM springs seems like a good way to go. Maybe the TSW springs. Should ride and handle well. I absolutely would not go lower than the NM springs, there just isn't any travel.

If comfort is more important, the Koni FSD's should do the trick. NM springs might be fine with them, but not sure.

I believe the "bumpsteer" that people report is not the conventional bumpsteer that has to do with geometry, but the lack of travel and bumpstops being engaged 100% of the time. I would cut them if using a lowering spring, and I would be tempted to cut them even on a stock set-up.

If you want a BIG drop or you want more control over ajdustability and setting up the car, then you need coilovers. From there, do some more research and talk to people about what works and what doesn't. Take ALL advice including this with a grain of salt. The Mini is very travel challenged and what might ride well for someone will ride like crap for you in the northeast with massive potholes and general **** roads. Remember that things advertised as "features" may not be a clear cut advantage. Dual height adjustable coilovers are one example....yes it's nice to be able to lower the car without sacrificing bump travel but this almost always means the company is using some generic damper and just adding in vehicle specific threaded mounts. And there is virtually no droop travel. I've seen that Megans use the same exact damper for the Subaru Legacy, Subaru Impreza, and Mitsubishi EVO, and probably many more. Not a great thing. Camber plates being included is nice....if you really want the camber. For some the stock mounts or IE fixed plates will be a better choice anyway over a crappy included camber plate.

- andrew

 

Back up the bus. NO NO NO you cannot run lowering spring of ANY kind with the FSD's. The reason you see that with the eibachs and FSD's is for different cars. The FSD's for the MINI can NOT be used with lowering springs. This is direct from Koni. The page in the post above is just a general info page about FSD's, not the specific FSD's for the MINI. If you don't believe me feel free to call Koni. But don't put lowering springs on a set of FSD's you'll ruin them.

 

Thanks for the backup Way...

 

That is most definitely a matter of opinion. There are many many people that drive street R56s lowered more then 1" without complaint.

 

Have NM springs and Bilstein HD's. Do not have bump steer or torque steer.
Lowered about an inch and handling is nice and firm.
On real crummy roads it rides like a truck, on roads with a crack every 10 feet, you hear it more than feel it, on good twisty pavement, you would swear you were flying. Cost, about 700$, about half the price of JCW and at least equal in performance, if not better (just my opinion!)
Overall, I am very satisfied compared to incredibly bad stock setup.

 

I just installed the full JCW suspension kit (dampers, springs, sway bars) approximately 4 weeks ago. I really like this setup. The dampening is perfect for spirited street driving. It is 30% stiffer versus stock suspension but it is still comfortable to be my daily drive. The mini now has what it lacked with the stock set-up, control. My front wheels do not break grip as easily during hard acceleration and torque steer is no longer a problem. Body roll is much less. BTW, My car is a 2010 factory JCW.

Just let me know if you have any other questions...

 

I have a stock 2010 MCS and am considering the JCW suspension kit. Do you a picture of your ride? Just wanna see how much it got lowered. Thanks in advance.

 

It's only supposed to lower the car around 1/2 an inch i believe... so nothing overly noticable (probably to keep more suspension travel for road imperfections)

 

Way - I am really confused - Not doubting what you say, but why would the Koni web page say a little lowering (~1") is ok but you need to call them to find out that this does not apply to Minis? I would hate to spend the extra money for the FSDs based on their web page, match them to the TSW springs, only to find out a year latter that I have blown them out with the springs. Seems as though Koni is just setting themselves up for replacing a lot of these "because their web page says...it's OK". Even at your price this is not a cheap mod.

I have heard/read a lot of good about the FSDs being a really good compromise for a DD that is used occasionally on the track or autoX. It would be nice to be able to match them to a little heavier spring than the S spring. Other than the JCW springs there is nothing else out there. I know, the JCW's will lower the car about 1/2" but can the shocks really be that sensitive to the ride height?

The other option is the Koni yellows with something like the TSW springs but from what I have read is they are a little too stiff for the roads up here in the Northeast, expecially in the winter. My objective would be a modest track improvement without getting beatup on the street.

Any opinions here would be appreciated...

 

Like I said, I just installed Koni yellows and the TSW springs. The ride is better than stock. More compliant over bumps which I attribute to the much better shock control and valving than the stockers.

 

lol, lots of people smoke meth and think they'll be ok too...

(ok, seriously, not with stock length struts they don't...) Properly engineered shocks/struts/ or coil overs are another subject.

 

Eddie

Koni said that page that says that is just a generic quote. Some of their FSDs for other cars will work with lowering springs. BUT the FSD's for the MINI will NOT WORK WITH ANY LOWERING SPRINGS.

Please if anyone doesn't want to listen to me feel free to call koni and ask to talk to an engineer they will explain it all. I just want to keep anyone from buying these and ruining them.

 

As I said, I am not doubting you, just that I find it strange to advertise a product in that fashion. People tend to not read the "fine print". I appreciate your response. I have also talked with some friends who are using the FSDs on Minis and the response has been really favorable, with the stock supension. This has made my decision easier - no springs to buy and I get what I am looking for - a resonable compromise between crappy roads and the track...

 

Been running the Bilsteins on stock springs with H-sport rear bar & RE 960's for about 15K. I still feel like this is about as aggressive as one can get in a safe street car. Yes, when it does break, it does so rather quick. Which end goes first depends on the corner, temp, road, and what you are doing. Just what one expects in a high performance car. If you want a car that is "comfortable" and gives lots of warning, buy a Camery. It was more forgiving with stock camber, but not near as quick. If you drive fast enough to get snap over/under-steer, you are going way the heck too fast for the street. (Guilty OK?)

I drive on some horrid roads. It may knock my teeth out and shake the car apart, but the tires remain in contact with the road. That is the function of the shock. The ride is actually a lot better than a stock S. It is starting to get to me though. Almost traded it in on a V50. Turns out, I do need a bit more cargo room. But after every test drive I got back in the Mini and remembered why I built it in the first place. Gad it's fun.

Let me remind everyone on the spring issue.
#1 Mini does not have enough travel to be safe on the street lowered.
#2 Lowering risks the half shafts being too close to straight causing sympathetic resonance issues.
#3 Mini geometry is pretty good. You don't need to lower into the negative side of the camber curve like a Civic.
#4 For street use, the Mini is so stupid quick you don't need to lower it. If you think it is not, go take some driving lessons.