I have a Justa automatic.

I enjoyed playing with it a bit on the Dragon, but it has a great deal of body roll and, given that I have no real way of matching the gear to the curve, I'm pretty dependent on brakes and suspension to get around a corner quickly (well... quick for a Justa Auto anyway).

In the old days, when men were men, etc. we aften contolled body roll with a good stout rear sway bar (think 1969 Z-28).

Given that I have a limited budget and given that my wife would frown on my setting it up like a mini racer, would I find any reall advantage in moving from the stock anti-sway noodle to something a bit more robust (I'm thinking NM blue 22mm with adjustable links). I'm also adding JCW 17 inch wheels but plan to stay with 205X45 size tires -- probably Grid 019s.

Any thoughts on whether the sway bar would net me any improvement?

 

The NM sway bar and end links would work for you. 17" rims can make your car feel a little more harsh due to the skinny side walls.

Before you are going into the corner, brake straight, use the paddles (or other means) to drop a gear and then turn in. You should be in the correct gear with power coming out of the corner.

 

I felt a very big difference in my Justa after I made the upgrade to a beefier rear swaybar. You may not need a 22, and the adjustable links probably are overkill for your situation, though. If you haven't bought the JCW wheels yet, consider going for a lighter wheel. That also made a big difference on my car. I saw a set of 17" OZ Ultras listed in the Marketplace in the last few days.

 

Yea, star lites were 22 Lbs, where the 16's on my R56 are only 16. That will make a difference in getting off the line, bumps and milage. I saw some 16 x 7 Enki that were only 17, and less offset too. I would love to get to 7 or 7 1/2 to run 215's but lighter safe wheels tend to get expensive!

I found I can confuse the transmission in automatic standard mode. Let off going about 45, then nail it. It will redline before it drops 3 gears and takes off. The delay is not fun, as you are usually flooring it for a reason. I have to admit, I have not used the manual mode and have not tested it in sport. All sport seems to do is raise the shift points. Thought I would shift manually as this is my first automatic I have owned. (and I am old). Normally, it is quite well behaved not doing funny things like downshifting in the middle of a corner.

Follow Sling's advice. Trail breaking or breaking with full power ( Yea I am an old SAAB guy) is not for us hacks on the street. Way too easy to wind up headed for the woods backwards.

Wonder how that works with modern cars that have such good breaks. On the Sonnet or GTI, the engine was far stronger than the front brakes, so it allowed an extra few feet of the rear braking on entrance. Full power, smash the brakes, yank it in lower gear right at entrance and ease off the brakes at apex. A little hard on transmissions too, but heck it could gain you 10 feet! In those days, we only drove one end of the car. The back was welded on, so we did not worry too much about where it was. Frequently next to us.

 

Which sway bar did you go with?

 

ALTA site has specs for their 19 and 22mm bars. Adjustable. Looks like most are.

 

I went with the ALTA 19mm adjustable. I wouldn't recommend ALTA's now due to clunking, but I think that size is good for spirited street driving. For the record, I want to mention that my Justa is a first generation R50 since this is in the second generation forums.

 

Try H-sport 19 mm as an alternative. It has greaseable fittings and forged ends. I am not too fond of welded ends.

 

What is the cause of the clunking? Is it not shaped correctly to clear everything? Is it shaped exactly like the OEM? ( some aftermarket cut a few corners) Have you chalked everything up to find what hits? Slop in end links?

On some Honda's I have seen less clearance on the bar work fine with stock exhaust, but hit aftermarket pipes that just barely clear the stock bar. A case of two aftermarkets being less than diligent combine to a problem.

I am prying as a rear bar is on my list for round two.

 

VV just has a clunker.

I drove that car last year. That is one fantastic handling machine. Great balance and enough power.

 

The clunking is due to the heim joint and is a common problem on the ALTA bars, and any bar with a heim joint, for that matter. I will replace these eventually, probably with H-sports. Slinger really knows cars and is correct in his assessment of my car. It is really well balanced and rides great, though it doesn't have half the power of my track S. Drivers behind me during MINI rallies always ask how come the car doesn't sway at all in the corners, but the clunking noise just bothers the perfectionist in me.

 

? Which car. Mine was a 79 Sirocco. It was very well balanced with just larger bars. Just in Denver, it was way too short of power. Everything was in proper reach. Light, nimble. 5 Saabs, 5 Honda's, 4 historic British, and a few other things between then and now.

I looked at 09 GTI's when I bought the Mini. Heavy but carried it well. Loved the trans. Just worried too much about that they have the very worst repair record of any car. Not that the Mini has a record to write home about, but still....

I had a welded end break on a 74 Corolla. Quite a ride through a fence and across the field. I have not heard of failures recently with quality manufacturers. I would not buy one welded in China. Actually, I would not buy one made in China at all. My bias.

 

Which car, you ask? As I mentioned in post #7, I am referring to my 02 R50. It is the Indi Blue in my gallery.

 

tvrgeek, some of us who have been in the Mini community for a little while may have a very different defination of quality vendor (not manufacturer only) than you do.

 

Have you seen the Turner end links? They use what looks like small tie-rod ends. Seem appropriate for street use.

Odd, I have used rod ends on links I made. Aurora I think. Did not notice a Klunk. Maybe it is how they mount them. I used welded studs, not just a bolt.

 

Yea. Part of the problem was I spent 10 years in a failure analysis lab. Tough when you know better. I had 15 manufacturing defects on my Mini. I had 2 total on 5 Honda's. Now, I have some sense of humor, as I owned a TVR for 15 years, an MG A, a Spit and a Morgan. These were old cars. Their defects were considered "charm". I expect a LOT more from new cars. A $25K Mini should be as defect free as a $12K Kia. No excuse. Aftermarket parts for use in the chassis should be as high or higher in safety as the OEM. Again, no excuse. Engineering is not exactly a new field of study. "Off road use" stickers in not an excuse to build junk and claim no responsibility. So yes, I have a very tough stance on manufacturing and design for reliability and quality because I know how to do it.

I also have a tough stance on doing business. There are a great many fantastic businessmen out there that serve our hobby quite well. I buy from the ventor who provides the best service or information unless his price is SO far out of line I can't pay it. I don't quiz the quality guys and shop e-bay. There is also a great many who care nothing about their customers. BMW is one I can think of. Our local dealer tries, but they are hampered by BMW policy. I have rarely read a letter as condescending as the one BMW prepared on why they will not fix our speedometers. It is not much consolation they treat their 7 series owners the same.

 

The Mini end links all seem to have similar designs with some differences in parts used and quality of materials.

I am glad the end links you made for the Aurora did not have a clunk. Not sure what relevance it has wrt VV's clunk.

 

Good that you are part of a failure lab. Maybe you can test all the Mini parts from all these vendors, then we will all know. Right now, you do not know but still opinionated. You don't even have the parts yet to look at it first hand. And not everything are lab numbers. Eventually, you still have to run it on the street or the track.

You seem to know all those old cars andthat is great.But please spend some more time with this car and this car's vendors. I could talk about all the stuff about Porsche and Lotus mods but no one would really care.

 

Do you mean end links, not bars? Rear sway bars have no joints. Most people leave the OEM endlinks alone and only swap out the sway bar.

 

Brain fart. My apologies. The clunking is from the heim joint of the control arms, also purchased from ALTA. It was initially diagnosed as a problem with the sway bar, and that turned out not to be the case. The sway bar does not have a heim joint on it, as you note correctly. I also had upgraded to the ALTA end links, and then replaced those with the 'new and improved' version from ALTA, but the clunk remains (ALTA said the clunk would go away if I did this). So to bring this back on topic for Herleman's sake, go for the rear sway bar. What size and brand are up to you, but I'm no longer an ALTA fan.

 

"Aurora" is a manufacturer of heim joints. Revelant as the suggestion was the links were causing the noise. the vendor is blamed, it would be worth understanding if it is a quality, implementation, or installation issue first. As I had not had that problem, I suspect it is not inherent to using heim joints.

Yes, most keep the OEM links. Non-compliant links are more of a dedicated track option that should be mated with Delrin blocks for the mount.

 

Sling,
Most of the manufactures that serve the Mini have served many other markets. Most of the vendors have served many markets. This is a good thing. A car is a car is a car. It is wise to learn from ones experience. The Mini is not the first hot-rod I have built, more like my 20th.

 

Terms are getting confused. By end links, you are talking about the connection between the bar and the suspension. It is made from two heim joints. Or are you talking about the track rods that connect the upright to the chassis, also made with two heim joints. Neither should "clunk". Clunk implies movement and impact. A bad thing.

 

I was trying to get this thread back on topic, but I will say that based on this forum, at least, it seems like the clunk appears to be more of an issue with the ALTA control arm design, and is not dependent on the installer or the presence or absence of upgraded endlinks. Having said that, there are many who have the ALTA control arms without any clunking issue. You can do a search under clunk or ALTA control arms to read through those threads if you like.

 

So, it is the track rods, or control arms as you call them. If others do not have a problem, it does not seem like it would be a design issue. I have seen where heim joints don't have the space to rotate and the edge of the socket hits the mounting bracket. I have seen poor fitting bolts. Again, chalk it up and find out what is hitting. A clunk is past NVH you would expect.