I just replaced the stock wheels and run-flats on my 2009 MCS with Konig Feathers and a set of Toyo Proxes4. The wheels look great and the tires stick very well. But the handling has (at least to my tastes) deteriorated significantly. Whereas the original setup tracked very nicely down the highway in a straight line, now it doesn't really want to hold the line at all, I have to be on it all the time. The slightest change in grade or road tilt and the car wants to go whichever way gravity pulled it. I'm constantly correcting to keep it straight. It is not pulling to one side or the other, just not wanting to stay straight. I assume that this may the result of a change in toe-in or camber during the switchover.

Has anyone else experienced this problem following an "upgrade" to tires and wheels? I plan to take it back to the tire dealer (Les Schwab) but I'd rather do so equipped with some knowledge/experience from other Mini owners.

Thanks for the help.

Harv

 

You may have already done this, but have you checked your tire pressure? I've had a few situations where tire centers don't properly inflate the tires which would significantly affect the handling.

I change from my summer and winter wheel and tire set every winter and spring, and the toe-in and camber has never changed simply due to changing the sets. If the tire pressure is good, perhaps they didn't balance the wheels correctly. Also keep in mind tires are pretty greasy for the first 500 or so miles.

 

Thanks. I have checked the pressure. The difference in the tire surface, being new, could be the problem, although it doesn't seem to have gotten better over a few hundred miles.

 

Alignment may be an issue but what you describe sounds very much like "tramlining", where the tire's tread pattern makes it try to follow grooves and imperfections in the road. Google the term and do a forum search for more information (TireRack's explanation is here). All tires tramline to some extent, some more than others. Perhaps others in the forum have Toyo Proxes 4 and could comment on their experience.

 

post back after 1k miles, hopefully it settles down

also check alignment like every1 else said

stretching some. it could be the weight differences in the wheels.. need some lowering =]

 

what I noticed, after I installed almost the same exact wheels, is that the track of the car doesn't fit into the worn groves in the road. the offset of the new wheels causes the car to gain about 1/2" in track width.

 

The Toyo Proxes4 are not very good tires for any application. Add to that the OE tires that MINI chose for the R56 "hide" it's reduced anti-dive up front and you now have more representative steering feel, not that it's a good thing. $ave up for installing some ALTA PSRS's [installed in the "half-n-half position] and it will matter much less which tire you install, in terms of changing steering feel.

 

what is the diameter, rim width and offset on the Feathers?

 

How much does the PSRS cost for someone to install for you? Can just any mechanic do it? The install looks pretty complex for someone with limited tooling/time.

 

They're not for the n00b shadetree mechanic, so please have them installed by good MINI mechanics that have lots of experience. That said, they are a simple interference fit bushing, so any competent mechanic that can read directions [this rules out most! LOL] can do it.

Back to the OP, the minor offset change of the wheels makes a marginal change in handling. The tire pressure and tread makes a much bigger impact on the R56. The lighter wheel will also improve steering feel, but that's a bad thing until PSRS's are installed.

 

Toyo Proxes 4 just suck. I had a set and absolutely hated them. But lower tire pressure, alignment and a proper balance might help.

 

Changing the wheels and tires does not change the alignment settings by itself, but the car might benefit from a slight change to the toe in to regain some self centering. I'd look for a good performance tire/alignment shop in your area and see what they suggest.

Changing the suspension bushings like with the Alta may give you NVH issues you didn't expect...........

 

I just "PLUS ZEROED" to a set of NITTO Neo Gens (215/45/17s) on the factory 17 inch rims. I thought tramlining might be an issue but no such problem.

The new tires are very responsive and feel great. There are also AWESOME in the rain. With the extra grip I am looking into running up the stiffness on the ALTA sway bar. The extra grip is causing too much lean in the corners.

 

Noise, vibration, and harshness is no problem for me... it's just that the wife drives with me everywhere. I'd hate to have to drive her Benz everywhere we go... oh no!

 

I had Toyo Proxes 4 on mine and didn't like them at all. Traction, handling and pretty much everything sucks about them. It is just a tire with cool tread. Depending where you got them, you may be able to request a replacement due, but do it asap. I suggest Falken 452 (quiet tire with very good performance), or Nitto Neo Gen which I currently have and performs way much better. These tires are about the same level of the Toyos in price and characteristics. If you want something better, I'd recommend Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S, awesome tire.

 

I can't comment on the Toyo's, but a big +1 for the Falken 452's. Great all-around performance tire.

 

Thanks to all of you for the feedback on the Proxes4 and the advice about other possible causes. Fortunately, Les Schwab is a very customer-oriented company. I went back and explained the problem and they said "no problem". They would check alignment if I wanted them to and switch tires until I found one I liked. They do carry the Falkens so that's what I try next.

harv

 

I, too, went from the boat anchor runflats to konig feathers and dunlop direzza tires in 215/45/17. I just took it out to the canyons for some mild run ins and seem to be slipping a bit to the point where understeer and ABS were the order of the day. I attribute this to the tires not being broken in yet since they only have a couple of hundred miles on them. I have read a lot about the direzza's so I'm not all that concerned. will try to run it again this weekend to see if they've gotten any better.

 

Same thing happened to me when I mounted up some 18" Konig Imagine Rims with Toyo Proxes 4 tires. I returned the tires and installed Michelin PS2's. No difference, even after an alignment. My guess is the slight change in rim offset from OE also changed the scrub radius and contributed to the "darty" handling. My Mini was especially nasty under braking. I think the front suspension bushings also contributed to the instability (toe change). To finish up this story, I traded my '08 MCS with the 18's and H&R CO's on a '08 R32. Mistake. R was a pig and is now history. I should have kept my MCS and installed poly suspension bushings and rims with factory spec offset. Considering getting a '09 MCS and doing it right this time. Good Luck!

 

Just changed to Konig Britelites yesterday (same tires) and immediatly noticed the straight line stability problem at highway speeds. Doesn't feel like tracking, just really sensitive. Nothing else was changed except the weight (-6.25lbs) and the off-set. The OEM WEB's were 48, the Konig's are 40. BTW, the tires are Goodyear Eagle GT 215X45 ZR17's. I still run the owner's manual 38psi and am wondering if that pressure is due to the OEM RF's characteristics (all bad!). For some reason, 38psi seems a tad high for "normal" tires. Thanks for any help.

 

i think i also heard that the runflats had such stiff sidewalls that it would respond very fast... anyone confirm this?

 

I have Falkens...that's all I ever buy.

 

I bought some 18 inch Enki J10s with BFgoodrich G force super sport KDW tires. Its not your car I think that your not used to the tires following the road. They are better tires than stock so your will notice a differnce.

 

True! Since the runflat sidewalls are designed as a strutural load bearing edge, they don't "cup" or flex during cornering.
Therefore the moment you place any input on the steering wheel, the response is immediate since it assumed that the sidewall is like a non-bendable member...
Translating forces via physics kick in and the car scoots from side to side without much effort due to the contact patch and non-flexing sidewalls.

- Erik

 

I'd be interested in knowing if the alignment specs of the non-runflat vs runflat tired cars are different.