Isn't the bar at the photo the OEM one? If yes, then it is 17mm the diameter (D) and not 19. So the figures will be a lot different there but still there will be a very small improvement. Let us know.

 

Very True 17mm, i ran the numbers in the link,

Factory 17mm bar would be 188.25, with same change in hole location new number would be 233.96, still a gain, smaller gain but a gain
I had wheels off mounting tires, so im not out too much time

 

Very True 17mm, i ran the numbers in the link,

Factory 17mm bar would be 188.25, with same change in hole location new number would be 233.96, still a gain, smaller gain but a gain
I had wheels off mounting tires, so im not out too much time

 

Nice, I might give it also a try.

 

Another assessment of sway-bar size choices: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...uct/353/cat/69

 

Some good discussion here. My thoughts:

1. Bigger does not necessarily mean better.

It may work for certain set-ups, but not all. I think most people get that.

2. A rear bar does not "just" remove rear grip. It adds front grip.

Total weight transfer in a given corner for a given car at a given speed (on a given day etc. ) will be the same regardless of spring rate or swaybars.

Increasing rear bar diameter increases weight transfer at the rear....but since total weight transfer must stay the same, this means that weight transfer at the front must decrease. This means the front tires are more equally loaded, since less weight has been transferred, increasing front grip. Rear grip may indeed decrease, but not that much since we are also reducing roll and camber changes.

3. The front of the car needs more grip, the rear has plenty.

Even if the rear lost some grip, adding grip to the front with a rear swaybar will be a net positive to total overall grip as the front is what's lacking anyway. The rear cannot be ignored, but for a simple set-up more can be found by working with the front.

The front of the car being on the bumpstops means that spring rate rapidly spikes super high in a corner for the front, resulting in a lot of front weight transfer and saturated front tires/understeer.

This is a great design "feature" for a mass produced "sporty" car, as it gives awesome response and turn-in but safe (and crappy) understeer to keep people from hitting trees with their ***.

Reducing that by adding a rear bar is good, although adding front suspension travel is my own goal.

4. 19mm seems pretty good to me. The 20mm Whiteline bar also sounds kinda nice, although I have not tried that one yet.

What meb was saying about starting with springs, then dampers, then fine tuning with sway bars is probably the correct way to go (with lots of back and forth thrown in and looking at the set-up as a whole). Bigger rear bars are often seen as band-aids, but boy are they cheap and easy to install for a noticeable gain. I consider it fine-tuning the stock setup. And band-aids have their place . But a huge rear bar is probably not the way to go without a slightly larger front (haven't tried it, but just the feeling i get).

5. I prefer front camber plates to the rear bar.

The IE fixed plates are a better first mod in my opinion, especially for an R53 with mushrooming problems. It's a little more cash since you need an alignment on top of parts cost, but it's less than a rear bar with anti-mushrooming plates.

There is too much front weight transfer, but there is also a pathetic amount of front camber. Both are problems. In terms of performance it may be close, but mushrooming is another problem fixed with camber plates.

I guess do both, and everybody wins.

Sorry for the super long post.

- Andrew

 

im going to do something similar...

i found out the rear swaybar thats used in the r56 is the same ( same part number ) as in the r53 ...
BUT: there is a 18mm sway bar available ( used in the R56 JCW )
as far as i could work out: all you need is the bar and the 2 rubber joints

and thats the one im gone try out ( i might try the extra hole you did too )
as far as i could work out ( using the same calculator you used ):
17mm r53 oem bar -> 100%
18mm r56jcw oem bar -> 125,6%
18mm r56jcw oen bar with the second hole -> 156,2%
i think thats enough for me ( as i already have all the other goody's like camber platers, dampers, springs.... )

and the best part: it looks stock and it doesn't cost much ( ~65€ )

 

Andrew, Great post, nice to see others peoples thoughts, i have noticed the rear is a bit flatter in corners but it seems front got a bit soft, like it is putting more weight on the front, I am going to look and see if i can do same hole mod on front,

I am planing a engine project so, i guess i am band aiding the suspension a bit

 

finally had time to install the rear sway bar
fits and looks OEM ( since it is OEM )

sadly the weather is a bit off at the moment ( slightly over 32°F and wet ) so i cant give a final opinion jet.

but what i noticed so far:
to sum it up: the slight under steer i had is gone

throttle closed into the corner -> slight over steer
with the throttle slightly open into the corner -> perfectly balanced ( slide over all 4 wheels, great control )
and the more i open the throttle it begins to under steer again.

and i noticed ab bit more grip when accelerating at the exit of the corner

over all: i like it

 

What rear bar did you go with, A bigger factory bar?

 

yes

 

This rear bar is up for sale with Powerflex bushings and front bar,

I gave in and got a set of Hotchis sways
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co.../product/10372

 

Hey good for you! How are you enjoying the new bars? Big differences? Just curious!

GLWS of the old parts too!

 

Awesome, Just did a track day at MMP
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com.../major-events/

Tested them out really well, Great Improvement
Just wondering why i waited this long to put sways in The car!

 

I'm still on the fence between the TSW bar and a H-Sport hollow bar. I like that the TSW approach is no BS and no zerk lubing periodically, but I do like the design / material choices of the H-Sport minus the zerks

I feel the rear end needs to stay planted better during sweepers, currently it has almost a double bounce that I can't dial out with adding rebound/compression.

 

Love my bars, Should done it sooner Just wish i would went coil overs, i have h sport springs with koni yellows right now

 

All of the bars work well. We like ours (duh right) and offer them in two sizes (19 and 22 mm) with multi-adjustment holes. 19mm is 9 lbs, and 22mm is 12 lbs.

I have tried cars with front bar increases as well as the rear, and always felt for me that the front bar put more understeer back in the car, vs the rear alone.

There are of course a ton of factors the contribute to handling (tires, wheels, inflation, weight, spring rate, damping force, etc. etc.) but we do recommend starting with the rear first.

As always if my .02 is ever needed, let me know!

 

SO SO true,

I started with powerflex bushings, My a arm pivots were gone and Bushings on factory bars,
then drilled rear bar,
16 Inch BBS wheels with 225 50 16 NON run flats,
Then koni yellows, with camber plates
Mini mania Polyurethane Rear Shock Bushings,
Then springs, then rear bar then front bar
and then and then,
Tires are Huge, Even air pressure
i got in about 12 laps last track day, making 2 or 3 psi drops in rear pressure until the car felt perfect,

But with each part i added, each changed the car a bit,

 

Well said! Real life confirmation! BTW: Looks like a blast. Kool car!

 

I've been doing roughly the same thing, just at a faster pace, and with less parts/money...

First, added 19mm rear sway bar, set on middle setting
Then, added Tein SS coilovers (with stock front camber, but reinforcement plates)
Then, moved the sway bar to the most aggressive setting
Then, sh@t myself at the lift-off oversteer that ensued :P

I'll be changing beck to the middle setting before MOTD, just so I have a bit more confidence in the backside.

 

We ALL want more confidence in our backsides!

 

Ah yes, I installed a H sport Comp rear bar middle hole and noticed the same thing, But i left it there, Once i installed the front H sport bar Lightest hole, it flattend out, Felt balanced after that

 

This is a great thread - I just installed a Whiteline 20mm bar (split the difference between the 19 and 22mm bars - too little - too much) and if first impressions mean anything, this is a huge change to the better. Seems to still have a touch of understeer on the softest setting. But the front wheels really bite-in now and the car feels to be cornering much flatter. I will find out more when it goes to the track in a week. This and the Ireland fixed camber plates seem to be the best thing you can do without really affecting the ride quality. By my way of thinking this makes the Mini into what it is advertised to be!