I wrote about my quick impressions - while at the same time, hogging another thread.

I drove to and from work four times this week and to NYC on the West side highway today totalling approximately 700 miles - back to City College tomorrow.

Although this suspension setup feels more supple in many ways, the front end bottoms out fairly often and there is not enough bound control. Big dips caused the car bob quite a bit along many sections of the West side highway and the Taconic Parkway making the car very hard to keep after. The bobbing unloads the car sending it into a fury of ocsillations that all too often result in some bottom out up front. Mind you, I can still control the car, but I cannot go as fast over this type of pavement as I can - or could - with the stock suspension. If you drive where the roads are smooth, this is a great kit...I also believe the extra suppleness help increase the tire's mechanical grip.

So although the car is lower - looks nice - and is more supple on normal non-NYC type roads, the standard suspension is about as good as it gets from BMW. It is a little more harsh than the JCW kit, but it has more travel and feels like it controls the car much better over a more diverse driving venue. Perhaps the extra 1/2 of travel loss is playing a role here since those nice multicellular jounce damping bumpstops are getting work out??? On smooth roads, this kit is indeed faster than the stock suspension.

Oh well...we can't have everything...I may change my thinking with another week or so behind the wheel, so stay tuned...I can change my mind, right?

 

Wow, good to know. Now I'm leaning a little more back towards my original idea of TSW parts...

 

...I'm keeping this thought in my brain...each kit is designated to a VIN and my car is quite light at just over 2,600lbs. Perhaps the springs are too soft???

 

This is true. That's another reason I'm thinking of avoiding the JCW parts because I have an R50 and the R50 kit comes with a bigger rear sway bar. That I already have in the Hotchkis variety. I don't want to be playing parts tag trying to determine what I need from the R50 kit minus the sway bar. For like an extra $200, I can get Koni's on the springs I want. Yes, JCW parts mean the car won't lose any value because it carries an OEM number, but it looks like I'm going to keep my car for a while. Why not have fun with it?

 

I don't regret buying this kit - none is perfect. I guess I am more surprised by some of the bouncyness. But let me write again, on normal non-NYC roads ( full of dips that could launch an airplane) this kit is a great, daily accomplice. I have a little more tuning to perform, so I'll highlight my final thoughts in a couple of weeks. By then I will have placed about 2,500 miles on these - hard miles

 

Work with your dealership's parts people, you should be able to get the springs and dampers without the swaybar(s). My 2003 Cooper had the JCW suspension put on without swaybars.

Remember that it is possible to get a Cooper with SS+ which would already have the swaybars that are sometimes included in the JCW suspension. So, MINI does have the ability to sell a JCW suspension for the Cooper without swaybars, you just have to get the person ordering the parts to get it right.

 

meb - so you did order using your VIN? I am just concerned that you got the wrong kit - there are 4 different spring rates for the JCW suspension, and which one you get is supposed to be determined by your VIN (and therefore the factory-installed options).

As I understand it, the differentiating factors are:

1. Sunroof or no sunroof
2. Manual or automatic

4 possible combinations there...

 

I included the VIN, so I assume it was used. The springs and dampers came in different packages...I should have added above that I use 38mm offset BBS wheels with 5mm spacers up front. This effectively reduces spring rate and I imagine this change alone make the four different spring rates a mute point - goofy me

I'm picking here really...I think bound could be a little stronger front and rear and the front rates could be a tad higher. Can I live with this kit? Sure, all day!

I still need to change out the rear trailing arm bushings and have the car aligned...dial in a hair more rear bar and I should be set!

On a scale of 1 - 10 (10 being best) I would give this kit a solid 8.5 perhaps 9. My complaints may be my fault as I totally forgot about the inlfuence of the track changes I made.

 

meb - can you explain how your offsets affect the spring rate? Is this a factor for any offset that differs from stock?

I'm glad that even with the bounce you're rating this so high - I'm looking for a set up with minimal drop (damn New Hampshire winters) that's daily driver fun AND good for the occasional Auto-X.

 

If you look up Motion Ratio you will get a pretty good idea, but here is a quick description.

Every suspension system has 5 points of restraint...except perhaps a solid live axle??? On a Mac Strut, four of these determine the effectivness of a strut. The inner control arm pivot point (s or tie rod/radius rod), the upper strut pivot point, the lower strut point of restraint, and, the ball joint. If you draw a picture of this diagram, you will notice that as the tire's center line is moved farther from the lower strut point of restraint (where it attaches to the knuckle AND by extension where its centerline crosses the plane of the lower control arm), the more leverage the ground has on the arm - in physics the ground pushes back. Imagine this another way - with a see saw. if the end on the ground has 100lbs on it and the fulcrum is in the middle, it will take 100lbs of force to lift the end on the ground. Now, if we make the end being pushed down twice as long, it takes only 50lbs of force to lift the 100lb side.

Motion ratio works in the same way, but the distances are usually unequal with respect to a fulcrum making calcuations more difficult. And, the angle of the strut influnences this calculation too. The key visual concept to over come here is that in physics the ground is a force that always pushes back. So, if you replace the ground with your own hands pushing up on the tire at its center you will see in your mind's eye how this works. Yes? You will be able to push against the spring with less force to achieve the same amount of motion as the tire moves farther out. All we have done is make the side of the see saw being pushed down on longer and this makes it easier to lift or displace the weight on the other side - that weight on the other side is spring and shock resistance on your car.

There may be more physics minded folks here who can explain better? Doc, Jasensmf???

And clarifying yet further, the standard suspension is probably a better all-round kit, even more tolerable in NYC. But since most of us do not drive on NYC's horrid roads - and I mean the worst I've ever seen - the JCW kit is really nice. The ride height has also settled a bit and the car sits pretty too.

 

Thanks meb - I never took the wheel position into consideration until I drew out what you said - makes sense now

 

 

Meb do you have any pictures of your car now with the JCW Suspension?

 

Not trying to hijack your thread, just post some impressions on the suspension after about 2000 miles. I haven't noticed the front end bobbing that you experienced, quite the opposite, on my car the suspension seems a bit tighter than stock. That being said, my roads are typically smooth. I will agree that the suspension travel on the front may seem a bit shorter than on the stock suspension as on small bumps it seems smoother, but on really sharp bumps it can be rather harsh.

Here are initial impressions I posted after I installed mine:

"Well I had a chance today to take the car over to a small twisty road and here are a couple of observations. First, the car seems to have even less body roll and better control. With the addition of the rear anti-sway bar, I'm able to rotate the car around turns with the throttle and lost most of the understeer. In fact, going through one particularly tight s-turn I was able to get the rear out a bit and drift through the turn at a much higher speed than before.

It'll be fun exploring the limits of this suspension on a track sometime. For those that aren't sure as to whether to take the plunge, I will say that the difference between suspensions is not night and day. The regular sport suspension is pretty well sorted, as we all know. But based on my limited exposure today, the JCW seems to raise the limits a bit and add a bit more control.

I'll post again after to i get more opportunities to test this thing out!"

"Finally got a chance to really wring out the new suspension on a very long and tight, twisty road. I must say, I am very impressed. This setup is the closest feel to a really well sorted out rear-drive car that I have ever experienced in a front wheel drive car. Usually with front wheel drive cars you feel like the front is doing all the work and the rear is just along for the ride. And while that's not necessarily the case with the stock suspension, with this setup, you can FEEL the back digging in and helping! It's really confident inspiring. In fact after returning from a round trip down this particular road, the word that came to mind after driving was "invigorating"! I was able to navigate the road at a faster clip than usual without feeling uncomfortable. The car seemed to have more bite. Going over hills, the suspension remained tight, hugging the ground and not having any wallow. Now, I'm sure there may be better suspension setups out there, but for my skill level, this is more than enough to keep me satisfied!"

For those who may have missed my post, here is a picture showing how much lower the JCW suspension is:

 

You're not hijacking this thread ...I may have hijacked yours a week ago

I blame the 33mm wheel offset on my impressions. I imagine that your wheels are 45-50mm offset? If they are 50mm for example, my wheels hang out about 5/8" farther, enough to change a few impressions.

And this highlights why so many do have different impressions of similar setups. I still like the JCW kit. I may remove the spacers for a week and comment back.

I don't have pics of my car, but davisflyer's rig looks great! The stance is noticably lower without looking lowered...make any sense?

 

My 2002 Cooper S came with the sports suspension, now it's becoming increasingly bouncy, I am thinking of replacing it with the JCW kit - anyone have any ideas if this is feasible?

 

...go to RealOEM.com and check out the parts and pictures. I know there are differences, but hopefully these are related to the dampers only and not the knuckle/bearing carrier???

I just checked - quickly...the knuckle appears to be the same, but the struts are not. I'm not sure that this is important if you are replacing the entire strut assembly WITH strut bearings.

 

I'm actually selling a set of JCW Springs if anyone is looking.

 

I just bought and installed the JCW suspension (from a GP) less than a week ago. The ride feels exactly the same, the look is not noticably lower, and I hope it handles better at my next HPDE in <2 weeks at the Glen. Price was good, and I needed something better than ssp.
my $.02

 

Shortly after I instaled the JCW upgraded suspension (fe hundred miles) I started hearing a noise when I turn the steering wheel only when the car is NOT moving. The wheel does not need to turn to lock position, just turn the wheel 1 to 1.5 rotations and there is a noise that sounds like a bushing is not sitting right and metal might be touching/rubbing somewhere under the nose of the car (hard to put the sound into words).

I did not have the dealer install the JCW set up; However, I took the car to them because the car is still under warranty and maintenance (one of the reasons I purchased the JCW suspension)+ I dont belive that its somthing I did or anything to do with the struts or springs. The dealership (stealership) says they don't know what it is, but since they did not install the suspension and its a suspensio noise they can't diagnose it unless I am willing to pay them what ever the labor is to diagnose it.... The best part is my service advisor said it could be 10 minutes or 3 hours to find the noise.... It is just one of those things...

Don't they have to prove that the problem stems from the suspension before they tell me that they can't fix it due to JCW install?
Any advise or sugestions as to what it may be????? BTW, I had the JCW suspension upgrade installed last week maybe 500 miles on it and the noise is not getting worse but not going away.
Thanks,
Michael S.

 

If the only change is the JCW suspension, the strut bearings may be worn...or perhaps the installer used an impact wrench on the strut bearing nut - a no no!

The install is very straight forward...you may want to check the order of parts - meaning the very order they are installed. sometimes folks place the stop washer in the wrong place...it should be under the strut bearing, not under the spring carrier. The spring carrier sits directly on the dampers pistion...on the step. The washer sits on top of the spring carrier - this is the order for later models.

 

Thanks meb, I will look in to that.

 

...so here is the order from top down for my 2005 S

Strut bearing dust cap

Strut bearing nut

strut bearing

strut bearing dust shield - under strut bearing - very thin washer

Stop washer - thick, strut bearing + dust cap sit on this washer

Spring carrier/upper spring perch + rubber isolator. This sits on the damper's piston step

bumpstop + dust shield

Spring

Lower Isolator

Strut - which includes the lower perch

Also, make sure the rubber isolators are in their proper postion - they only fit one way.

I dunno why I offered the order this way, but build it in reverse.

You do not need a spring compressor with the JCW kit. If you push down on the strut bearing with your weight - with one hand - you can catch more than enough threads on the pistion and then torque properly.