Same forces acting on the braces that act on a strut tower bar. Inward and outward strain created by the strut. The force is transfered to the bumper, or where ever these attach instead of the other strut tower. I don't get what their size has to do with anything.

Don't follow your door or crash guard analogy either.

 

 

Then I would assume you haven't seen these braces installed.

 

Scott, they brace the strut tower against the chassis. How does that qualify it as something that is not attached to anything that is affected by the suspension? IT S THE FREAKING STRUT TOWER!!

C'mon man, you don't really have anything here. And before you go claiming they do nothing at all, SHOW ME THE DATA!!

 

Have you?.. I don't really get how they could not stiffen things up.

Look at the big hunk of metal in a cantilever position in this pic (strut tower) how could attaching the front top of that piece to the frame not keep it from flexing? If you'd like I still have a Static's book I could send you so you could read up on the subject.

 

Just kidding about sending you my Statics book, I still use it... to do real engineering. But I regress, I've made my point and I'm sure you won't care or even consider it so I'm done.

 

I should have taken Scott's advice. Not because he is right, but because of this:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=135676

 

People love saying things did something after spending money on it . For the same reason people say they like Starbucks coffee the best, or Pepsi over coke, then they do a blind taste test and dunkin donuts and coke win .

It might do something, honestly I have no idea. If your suspension is set up properly though you could take that, and both of your sway bars off and the car would still drive the same for the way 90% of people out there drive.

I still don't know why people spend money trying to give themselves more room to play when they haven't even maxed out what they already have.

Again, you shouldn't need a structural brace like this on your car if you set up the suspension properly.

 

http://cp_www.tripod.com/rotary/images/pg12_03b.jpg

 

Didn't work. You can post it in your gallery, if you can't find a place to host whatever picture it is e-mail it to me and i'll host it .

 

I can see the pic by cut and pasting the url into my browser. I don't get why that pic is in this thread though???

 

what about people like me that have?


soft and mushy suspension like on a Buick??

 

Reality is, the stiffer the suspension, the greater the need for proper bracing...a roll cage being the king of all braces.

 

exactly. the old school GM wisdom was stiff FE3 suspension to counteract a weak chassis structure as the way to good handling. As cars got stiffer, suspensions tended to be softened and handling and ride improved. Stiff suspension loads the chassis much more, therefore stressing it. you can get a stiffer chassis without bracing...seam weld all the unibody pieces together (they are only tacked). A rally car is seam-welded and has a roll cage.

 

Actually, I couldn't care less how 90% of the people drive or what they are capable of noticing. 90% of the humans don't modify their cars at all. I want my car optimized for where and how I drive.

Short of a roll-cage, the braces are a pretty good solution for making the MINI frame stiffer, and that does improve handling.

 

Dunkin Donuts is the best coffee, hands down. Other than that, I don't see much truth here. Have you ever tried driving your car with the sway bar detached? I can't even imagine.

 

Yah...that's a pretty questionable statement to make about the swaybar. Even during daily driving you would notice that the swaybars were detached. No matter how well your suspension is set up....if you then go on to remove the sways, your car will handle much differently.

Maybe you were trying to say that the swaybar should be reserved for the finer adjustments after you've already setup all the other adjustments?

Why not? It seems that the cars that are truly setup properly and being used at their max are gonna be the ones that need the bracing the most. Chances are, anyone running 'properly setup' suspension will be running a fairly stiff suspension and some sticky tires... if anything, this will make the bracing a very desired mod.

What 'proper' suspension adjustment do you think would help brace the car and make braces/roll cages unnecessary?

For a BS policeman...you're not doing so well protecting us from the BS.

 

The above statement is completely erroneous. Utter nonsense. Total BS. Massive display of ignorance about automotive engineering. Clearly clueless about "...set(ting) up a suspension properly."

To summarize: the suspension cannot do its job well if the frame of the car to which it is attached is part of the suspension springiness, as any flexibility of the frame will affect the suspension geometry in changing and undesirable ways.

Well-designed aftermarket bracing can make the MINI frame and chassis more rigid, and makes handling more precise and predictable, particularly on real-world twisty roads. If you haven't tried it, you have no idea what you are talking about, so please don't.

PGT has it right with his tale about the evolution of design that took place at GM. Modern cars are still pretty floppy, because they use automated spot-welding machines, instead of seam-welding them, and because the mfrs. use the thinnest possible sheet steel, to save money and increase mileage.

If you want to go faster, start by making the frame more rigid, whether by bracing, welding, and/or a roll-cage. Cars with heavy wheels or boosted engines need bracing even more.

I'll even offer that if any NAM member in the Portland area (except scott) wants to drive my car to demonstrate that MINI bracing works well, I'd be happy to oblige.

 

I have an '08 Civic Coupe. I put 18" wheels with Kumho Ecsta MX in 225/40-18. The suspension is factory, which I think would be considered "properly set-up."

The sway bars on the EX are super thin. The car rolls over so bad in turns it almost makes me sea-sick. I'm going to put Si Sways on it to improve rolls stiffness.

Just goes to show that roll bars and chassis braces aren't worthless, even with suspension that is "propery set up." Even my 2006 330i had a factory strut-tower brace. The suspension was the sport-package, M-tuned suspension.

If chassis braces were unnecessary, they wouldn't be bolting them on at the BMW factory... now would they?

 

PGT,

I wonder...traditional strut braces attach the strut towers to one another but never attach to the bulkhead behind the engine - the traditional strut braces. I wonder if those two pieces on your car actually complete the triangulation, albeit, to the front of the car...? What do you think?

 

teh bulkhead on the MINI in between the towers is just a thin firewall. The area these cabrio braces is the subframe of sorts....a smart area to brace. I'd like to get some spring scales and test chassis flex....connect them across two areas, then jack one side of the car up - should show how much flex there is easily and cheaply.