I have an R56 MCS with stock suspension.

Went to my first-ever AutoX on Sunday and had a good time. I ran out of group for no points, which was fine. I'm not really sure what group I'm in because I have a JCW strut in the engine bay, and have done a rear-seat delete. I think that will put me in a class that allows lots of modifications.

So, I'm looking at improving the suspension. I hear that the most bang-for-the-buck mod would be a rear sway bar. This car has to function for street in comfort. So, an adjustable 19mm bar seems like a good idea. Recommendations?

Are 22mm bars pretty harsh for street?

What is the installation like? Any instructions posted?

BTW, I couldn't get to Alta's web page to check out their bars. Web page gives and error message.

What about a front sway bar?

Other suggestions?

I'm not interested in lowering, unless it is something that could be temporarily for an AutoX day, and then back to normal for street. Reducing ground clearance would be a very bad idea in my area.

Thanks.

 

A 22mm bar will make the car dance in the slaloms, but will be a handful to control with a short wheel base and a driver with limited experience with that setup. Also the sway bar will put you into street prepared. People may think these are great on the street but with a stock suspension they can be handful at the limit.

The strut bar moves you into street prepared, but he rear seat delete runs you into SM. SM is a land of engine swaps and customs wheels.

A front bar is stock class legal and will improve turn in and steady state cornering, you will have to dial out the added under steer the increased front roll rate will give you. High damper in the rear shocks and tire pressures will help.

The best bang for your buck is Koni Yellow shocks. You can adjust the amount of throttle lift off over steer by adding rear damping and will allow for better control of the car overall. There is no better bang for your buck aside from tires. Run your tire pressure high in the rear. to help correct under steer.

start there then add what you need. But i would get at least 1 year of experience in a stock car and get experienced drives to drive along with you to give you advice. Adding modification and sticky tires with a novice driver does not mean faster times.

 

hey Robin,

Did you go to the Auto-x at the Marina airport? My buddy runs those events, yet for some reason I haven't had the MINI out there yet. Was it fun? Well run? Recommend it for a beginner?

Andrew

 

Thanks for the reply. What about a 19mm adjustable bar, such as Alta's? Not enough help with autox to bother with?

That's what I was afraid of. I may run out of class for no points just for fun.

Front sway bar?

Yea, certainly my main need is seat time. I'll try to get someone to go with me next time. I just thought it might be nice to try and reduce some of the body roll in the stock suspension.

 

Yup, that's the one. It was fun, in spite of my having no experience at such events. I found people who were very helpful. They welcome beginners, and have a beginner walk-through of the course every event. I did the walk-through twice -- once with an experience MINI owner, and once with the beginner's walk-through. They both gave me good strategy info on how to take each corner.

One of the hardest parts is remembering the course. A couple time I went to the right preparing for a left turn and discovered late that it was a right turn. Often, when you come down a straight, it just looks like a dead-end, and difficult to tell which way it turns. I don't think I hit cones, but lost time in having to slow way down.

There were some nice fast chicanes and two straights connected by a gentle curve, so it got exciting. The dual straights ended with a 180 turn, but had three or four car widths runout area. So, high powered cars could brake hard, make a tight turn and power to the next turn -- taking the shorter distance. Cars with less torque could take the full width to keep up as much speed as possible.

There were a number of people there from Santa Cruz in various cars. You should come to the next one. IIRC, there were at least four Classic Minis, and about the same number of BMW MINIs.

http://www.norcalufo.org/2007/event-8-07.html

 

I think 19mm is far more manageable. but if you have the technique to control the car when it dances then 22mm is the way to go. I think the best thing is to consider the upgrade to 22mm once you have enough experience to know if you need one or not. I can not see that upgrade for my car at this time, with the factory SS i was having no issues getting her to rotate. But i was not on Hoosiers and everything will change if i go that route.

yes i was referring to a front swaybar.

you will reduce the roll with higher damping shocks. IDK if KONI have replacement out for the R56 yet. You can send your stock shocks to them for a rebuild but it is not cheap.

 

Are these the KONIs you had in mind?

http://www.namotorsports.net/detail..../KOMiniSports/

Looks like they run around $700 on sale. That would have to wait awhile.

 

Robin: I don't AutoX my car but I added an H-Sport 19mm rear bar to my car at AMVIV ($300 installed). I notice a definite difference in hard cornering but really no difference driving around town. The car simply goes around the corner with less steering wheel feed (less understeer). That's what I wanted and I got it. There are no front bars for the R56. I don't really want to lower it nor do I want to spend $$ on coilovers. When I wear out the rfs I'll go with non-rf tires like you did. I watched a video on installing the bar, and unless you have a helper who has done a few I would strongly suggest you don't try this at home! My install (Way Motorworks out of Atlanta was at the AMVIV) was $100. For what it's worth.

 

Thanks. Is that video online somewhere?

Any reason for choosing the H-Soprt over the Alta?

 

I saw the video link in this forum somewhere a couple months ago. I watched 2 dudes at Way do an install at AMVIV. They jacked up the car/removed the rear wheels, used a drill with flex attachment to remove several bolts both sides, removed the RR coilover (I think they just loosened the left), loosened the subframe, took off the asb bushings, took out the old bar, fit in the new, put on new bushings, then the subframe, coilover, and whatever bolts/screws that were left (I couldn't tell where they went), and wheels. They look like they could've done it blindfolded. Took an hour or less. I can see the mounting holes through the wheel at about 1 o'clock and the bushing clamp just in front of the coilover with a grease fitting on it as the bar runs across the car. It's pretty tight quarters in there.
I did the HSport because that's the only 19mm they had left there.

 

Your right, We've done enough of them we could do it blindfolded.

Swaybar is def. bang for your buck, you can always add more to it as you go along.

 

What are the pros & cons of H-Sport vs. Alta?

 

I'd pick the h-sport over the alta simply for the zerk fittings, they make greasing the bushings much easier. If you're set on a 19mm bar, h&r is another good choice for their tefflon bushings; supposedly they never need greasing.

If you're set on auto-x, consider the h-sport 25.5mm hollow bar. Since its hollow its equivalent to a 22mm solid and is very light. I feel like this would be the better choice because the driving style of auto-x requires you to toss the car around a bit more roughly than on a track, and this would really help you rotate your rear end around. Just my $.02

 

The car would be used mostly for street, but also autox. Wouldn't the 25.5mm be a bit much for street?

Thanks for the tip on the bushings.

 

I used mine on the street with no problems at all, although I will admit it took me a day or so to get used to it. However, once I was used to it, my car felt like perfectly normal on the street, not like it was going to slide all over the place. I kept it on the loosest setting at all times, which was perfect for my needs.

 

Can you describe the effect? What was it that you had to get used to?

Thanks.

 

After I first installed it, the car provided the strange sensation that the back was always trying to come around on me. It felt really weird at first and was a little bit of a scary feeling, but after playing around with it I could see that the car wouldn't spin out even when I was trying to. It was a strange feeling at first but I got used to it.

I've been to several track days with the comp bar and never spun. There was only one time where I even got sideways, and that's because I dropped 2 wheels in the dirt on a hard corner exit.

 

Robin, get seat time firt. Any imporvment to the car will stop you from finding the limit of the car. The stiffer you make the car, the stickier the tires the harder it is to push he car to the limit.

 

I installed it at home. But I am above average mechanically inclined.

 

I have the H-Sport 25.5mm bar, and it's fine for the street. It's a hollow bar, so stiffness-wise, it's really only equivalent to about a 23mm solid bar. Even with the bar on full-stiff, it's never felt "squirrely" on the street, although I think having my car lowered on coilovers helps in that regard.

I put the bar on at the same time I did the coilovers, so I don't know what it would be like with the stock shocks/springs, but I think the general consensus is that a stiff swaybar with an otherwise-stock suspension is a little more twitchy than the same bar with an upgraded suspension.

 

Please note that the OP has-

JCW strut bar
Rear seat delete

Therefore Street Modified Class

So rear swaybar is not a big deal. Just try the softer settings first.

Tire pressure higher in the front by about 2-3 psi then adjust.

Skill counts far more than mods.

A stock MCS can run faster times than an SM class MCS if the right driver is in each car. The right tires make a huge difference given enough skill.

 

It is clear to me that seat time is most important, and I don't expect hardware to substitute for it. However, I would like to reduce the body roll and plowing a bit.

So far, I'm leaning towards an H-Sport 19mm. Seems like the H-Sport Competition is good for the R53, but the 19mm may be the better choice for a stock suspension R56 MCS with a green driver.

I'll think about tires when the Michelins wear out.

 

19mm adjustable rear bar should be fine for you. Use softest or middle setting then adjust. Stiffest is not always best solution.

Body roll and plowing has to do with your speed in turns, your line through the course, weight transfer, and the smoothness of your throttle and braking.

These are all determined by skill level. A driver that is smoother and plans ahead well using small hand movements to steer and is easy but firm on the throttle and brakes will be able to do the same course with much much less understeer (plowing) and bodyroll (turning too wide or too abruptly).

Improving the suspension to make it stiffer allows better handling with less effort but street comfort could suffer. The ultimate performance or track setup is hardly streetable for the average driver or passenger.

Most of us take corners too fast, we get understeer (a tip off you were too aggressive). Try entering the corners a little slower about 1-2 mph less, make the turn, straighten the wheel out then get on the throttle to exit fast. Once you enter the turn too fast you cannot maintain traction, you plow, you cannot get on the throttle until late, you just lost a second in the turn, maybe more. Every tight turn is the same.

You'll get the least body roll if weight is on all four wheels in equal amounts or close to it. Never take a slalom with wide turns, enter it straight and get really close to the cones on your rear wheel but don't knock them down. The more evenly you can go through and as straight as possible the less body roll you'll get. Only in a slalom with decreasing spacing would you have to slow a bit. Only in a slalom with wider or multiple cone spacing would you not go straight.

Good luck.

 

I just wanted to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread as I am a few steps behind Robin now just learning about autocross (just joined BMWCCA last night) and the advice by more experienced drivers is immensely helpful. Robin and others in the bay area maybe I'll see you at an event soon