Hey folks,

So my suspension terminology may be wrong here, so correct me if I misunderstand any of the following:

• Springs: Obviously, just springs
• FSDs: Springs + Shocks, precalibrated?
• Coilovers: Same as FSDs, but adjustable?

So assuming that's all correct, I'm thinking of getting springs, but not sure why I'd want to go with FSDs instead over just springs if I intend to get camber plates and don't want the uber adjustability of coilovers.

 

Ask yourself what are you trying to do. What is your MINI going to be used primarily for?

Why is your stock suspension not working for you now?

Springs- usually used for lowering ride height but not adjustable- will often improve handling but make ride quality worse except on smooth roads. If you have poor roads then this might not be the best idea. If you don't want to lower your car as much this might not be as good or you can choose an upgrade with minimal drop like JCW suspension.

Koni FSD- are shocks only no springs. good for street use.
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop...per_fsd_shocks
also at other vendors and tirerack.com

Coilovers- (shocks and springs) many types from fixed to adjustable for shocks and for ride height, can be expensive from about $1300 to $3000 a set of four. Requires tuning and adjustment for best results and can be adjusted for both street driving and for track use. Best street sets are not as good for track and best track sets are not as good for street use. When used for street use a good set of coilovers probably will give a very good ride with good handling- many sets to choose from. FSDs are not coilovers

Talk to other owners about what suspension upgrades they have done and look through the threads on various options.

 

The reason I'm looking to upgrade my suspension is i'm very fast in a straight line (lots of engine work) my stoping power / fade resistance is great (DT BBK) but i feel like a wet noodle through corners compared to what I've seen in others suspension setups. Should be easy enough to explain, considering I've got bone stock suspension except for my rear anti sway bar.

It is a daily driver (about 40 miles round trip for commute a day) but I drive it hard, and I'm very willing to put up with a bumpy ride for fun on the weekends / track days. I'm definitely not interested in an all-out track car. it DOES need to be semi-practical on the street.

So FSDs are JUST shocks? Would a good solution for someone like me who's looking to get the most out of their suspension be to get some lowered (but not too low) springs along with FSDs, or are these incompatible?

I already know coilovers are out of my league. Both in terms of cost and complication. I want something simple, but better than stock, on the border of what's street tolerable since I have a high comfort tolerance.

 

FSDs are good for street and will improve handling to some degree but not as good for full track use. Ride height is stock. You keep the stock springs.

Lowering springs are good looking but you will tend to wear out your stock shocks faster and then ride quality will suffer a bit over time, the more track driving you do the faster the shocks wear out. Koni Yellow shocks are helpful and will work better than stock shocks for any performance driving. They are adjustable for stiffness. Usually you just set it at time of install.

There are many springs possible- various rates of stiffness and some linear vs progressively rated. Ride heights vary.

Talk to others that have Koni FSDs and use them and see what they think about street vs track use.

 

ACCORDING TO kONI - YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE LOWERING SPRINGS WITH FSD'S THEY DEFEAT THE PURPOSE OF THE FSD'S IF YOU DO SO.

THEY ARE DUEL VALVE AND AUTOMATICLY ADJUST TO YOUR TYPE OF DRIVING.

 

Since the JCW springs do not really lower the car does anyone have any feedback about what the ride might be like with that setup compared to stock?
Keep toying with this idea with a 19mm swaybar. Car is for street use and most likely never be used on the track.

On top of this I will most likely go to non-runflat tires. Probably Goodyear F1 all-seasons.

 

I personally don't understand why camber plates aren't more widely used or recommended. The car, from the factory, has too little negative camber - it corners flat enough though to keep the stock rear anti-swaybar (when used on the street). Plates give more handling adjustments, better tire wear, stop strut mushrooming, and gets to the root of the understeer problem.

Granted full adjustable camber plates run double to triple the price, but in my opinion they address the issue much more appropriately and directly than the 'swaybars do.

- Matt

 

I have been planning on the camber plates also. The thing about the swaybar is i have driven another MINI with one. The steering had a more centered feel. As if the car was turning from the dead middle. Very confidence inspiring in the twisties.

 

Interesting, I never knew FSDs cancelled out the need for springs. I do want a lowered ride hight, so it looks like my task for now is to stick with purchasing the springs + camber plates + rear control arms and if i really got more serious than that, switching the springs out to coil overs would be the solution.

 

FSDs are only shocks, and they replace your OEM shocks. They work in conjunction with your OEM springs, they don't cancel out the need for springs at all.....

 

hunter99, I had the JCW springs over FSD struts, I was enthusiastic about the ride in the beginning but found FSDs could be over-driven easily, in the end one strut failed, so from my experience omnivector & hunter99, I can’t recommend FSDs regardless of which springs are used.

omnivector, consider Bistein SP struts with stock springs, no more “wet noodle”.

 

A number of us PDXMINI people have the FSDs. Some with H Sports, some with JCW springs and some (me) with MCS springs. The range of people with them varies from former race car drivers to more novice (me again). None of us complains. You can over-drive any suspension set up, really. For mostly road/street use, FSDs are fine with me. Think about how aggressive you want to be with your car and what your driving ability is. Those two factors should be mated to the appropriate suspension setup; that will likely be most rewarding.

dan

 

Two quick clarifications for the OT and hunter99.. The JCW springs do lower, but it's small, something like .5". And the FSDs seem like a fine product, but are not designed to work with lowering springs and will tend to fail prematurely with them.

Bilstein SP or Koni Yellows are the two most common shock replacements, and they both play well with lowering springs. I went with the Yellows and have been happy. They've tightened the car up considerably. As verveAbsolute said, camber plates are a great addition. Lowering springs, for what it's worth, are mostly an aesthetic thing. The stockies are nice units. (While we're all chasing better handling, we often forget the cars are great out of the box.)

 

Koni FSDs and TSW springs here with no problems and the car has been to the track and handled great

 

Hello
Newbie, first post. Found and bought a set of Koni FSD's yesterday, at least two more sets available. Contact Louis at louis@ltbmotorsports.com. These were listed on eBay and my user name is hd5853. Passing on a great price.

Merry Christmas,
Mark

 

IF:
> you want to track your car, AND
> you TRULY don't mind a harsh ride, AND
> you still need "street practicality,"
then IMO, you should:
> invest in lighter but less expensive rims (<16 #) and maybe even a set of rims and tires for track use only
> keep the car at or near stock ride height (< 1" drop),
> use linear springs (stock or sport or TSW or a TEIN product -- I think the others are either a longer drop, siuch as Eibach's, or progressive rate, such as H&R, I believe: don't quote me on this)
> go to a non-progressive strut (not FSDs) Bilstein SP struts, such as recommended by k-huevo, would probably be a good bet.
> get camber plates and adjustable lower control arms and set up relatively aggressively (-1.75 to -2.0 front and play with the rear until you like it)

This may be a harsh ride -- even to you who professes to not mind -- but, as suggested, will certainly not be a "wet noodle" and the near-normal ride height will make the car practical (if not comfortable) for the street.

I have a daily driver, also, and have not tracked the car so far. I love my FSDs, but I would not recommend them for serious track use to someone who doesn't mind a harsh ride. They are just not the optimium solution for road racing or autox.

 

Where I am at now is the FSD's or Bilstien SP's using the stock springs. Also going to be added to this is a 19mm adjustable sway bar and camber plates.

I don't intend to track my car but enjoy driving the twisties when I can.

Based on this my driving style is probably a little conservative but willing to throw it around in twisty roads. I do tend to drive fast and my drive to work and back is on the highway.

I have only considered playing with my suspension for a little better handling while possibly improving ride comfort. The runflats will be leaving when worn out.

My only question is fixed or adjustable camber plates. Understand I most likely will not play with the adjustment if I had adjustable plates. I would probably trust what the installer set them at.

 

Sounds like a good street setup.

I recommend adjustable plates. You don't have to use the adjustment feature frequently for them to be worthwhile. You can start at a more conservative (maybe -1.5?) setting, and work with your installer to find the right balance for YOU (right toe, also). If you get the non-adjustables and decide you want a more aggressive setting later, you will be SOL. Also, some MINIs are not symmetrical in respect to their camber. Adjustables will allow you to balance L and R camber if yours is one of those that is "off center."

The guys who seem to have found some good vibes from more negative camber in the front seem to have wound up at or near -2 degrees for the street (more for the track) or at least more than -1.25, which is the "setting" for the only non-adjustable plates I've heard of (by Ireland Engineering).

 

Markldriskill, that is great advice and I didn't think about it that way. Any recommendations on which camber plates to get. I have read really good reviews on the Helix ones but I think they are more money. On the other hand my wife is from Philly and I could probably schedule an install during a vacation trip up that way later in the new year.

 

BTW, are the SRP's needed anymore after doing this mod?

 

...which are (I have read) the same as/made by Eibach's. I got them only recently, and while I like them so far, I can't attest to their durability. However, they were recommended by Steve's of LA's San Fernando Valley (practically a MINI icon in the LA area); and they were an exceptional value. They do not allow caster adjustment.

Helix makes outstanding (and beefy looking) plates, but they do raise ride height slightly (1/4" or so, I understand). Helix, I believe, allows caster adj. On the pricey side, but if you "get what you pay for" then these should be the king.

H-Sports don't raise ride height and are said to be very good, also. I believe they allow caster adj. also; but don't quote me. Better check their product info to see.

Ireland Engineering's adjustables have had some serious wear problems reported on NAM, or I would have tried them.

There are probably others, but those are the only ones with which I 'm familiar.

If by "SRP" you mean either strut tower reinforcement plates (such as m7's) or strut tower bars, then the answer is camber plates lessen th likelihood of mushrooming, so you don't "need" "SRPs" to reinforce the tower tops. If, however, you still want a stiffening bar between the towers, then plates will not prevent installing one (as far as I know). But CHECK the specific brands you review before buying if this is a concern to you.

 

I've got 33,000 miles on my FSDs with lowering springs so far. Initially I had them with HSports but was bottoming out during autocrossing--destroyed and lost my bumpstops during a particularly fast canyon run. I went to H&R green springs at Scott's advice over at Central Coast Coopers--the H&R greens offer about the same drop at the HSports but the coils are thicker. Combined with my 22mm Rspeed sway bar and Promini adjustable rear lower control arms, the ride is smooth, stable, and predictable even with my worn Ziex 512s.

Yesterday I got the pleasure of driving a NAM members MINI with the Cross coilovers--his JCW had the stock wheels with runflats but we both noted that ride comfort was similar-my setup may have been a bit smoother than his over the rough areas but not a day and night difference--considering he was on runflats, the Cross setup felt pretty darn good. I didn't want to push his car like I did with mine--where he got to experience my Jan tune around a 360 degree on-ramp--he noted that my car stuck like glue around all the cars we passed, lol.

Eventually I will want to get the Cross coilovers as well, but for now, the FSD's and H&R greens is an economical alternative.

Richard

 

I had been running Tein S Techs on stock struts for over a year. I loved the look and the lower CG, but the struts were overwhelmed. The car would easily get upset with small undualtions in corners, bottom frequently, etc.. I think just adding lowering springs without all the other elements (struts, camber plates, rear cntrl arms, alignment) sorta of ruined the car's handling.

I got FSDs for xmas and decided to try them on stock springs. Though I was bummed to see the ride height back to stock the car truly handles better than before. The ride is pretty smooth but still firm. Sure, its absolute limit is not race car level, but for my needs and driving habits it is just great.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

 

For daily street I'm enjoying bilstiens shocks, stock springs, 19mm rear rear sway and Avenis 615 tires. Not a bad way to go.

HOWEVER coilovers have come down in price, a set of BC coilovers (w/ camber plate) can be picked up for 1,100.00 - for FULL adjustability.