For any lower control arm that is adjustable.

Remove the existing stock lower control arm.

Adjust the aftermarket control arm to the same length as the stock arm just removed and install the adjustable control arm.

Now the camber is the same as it was before.

Only by changing ride height will you change the camber if all else is kept the same.

It is possible that toe settings will be affected with the installation of lower control arms.

 

why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea to ADJUST the camber? If you want your camber to stay the same, keep your stock bars...

 

The question was-
After installing the SPC lower control arm, what is the resulting GP camber?

If you want the camber to be the same before and after then set the length of the control arm to the same as stock.

If you want to change the camber then ask the alignment shop to adjust the length accordingly for your specs.

During the initial install you can make the camber same as stock or you can change it but you won't know how much you changed it until camber is measured. Changes in camber can affect toe settings.

 

Gotcha. Any idea how the toe settings are affected?

 

For the rear, more negative camber via the lower arm adjustment creates more toe-in. When getting an alignment camber will be adjusted first and toe afterwards.

 

Alright, I don't post here often but I have to say, I'm in engineering school right (three classes from being done) for mechanical and (already done with) electrical and I can tell you that there will be loads trying to buckle that control arm.

I've also had a hand in more than one Formula SAE car and I've never had a good feeling about any of the control arms that have turn buckles in the middle.

In a perfect world where you're doing your homework from a textbook, there won't be any lateral loads with a heim joint. What happens when you hit one good pot hole and it bends only slightly? Or when you put a bunch of force on it and it starts to buckle? It's all down hill from there.

 

PS. sorry for bring back a thread-from-the-dead. I linked here from a different thread.

 

No thank you very much, I just ordered some minimania lower arms b/c my neg camber cause uneven tire wear. They are getting installed tomm and i want to make sure they are correct. I have built a prerunner truck and know quite a bit about suspension. For my buy, the minimania links with heims seemed to be the best bet. The stock rubber bushshings limit and i know from experience (broken long travel arms) that they can/will fail under extreme loads where as heims have the ability to adjust. Good find by the way.

 

a lot of this is incorrect.

whether a specific design wil buckle (or cripple) depends on the actual layout of the design and the applied loads. you can design a center turnbuckle arm that will take the loads just fine. in fact, if the center turnbuckle section is larger and stiffer than the 2 end tubes, it effectively shortens the buckling length of the tube, thus improving resistance to buckling.

on the mini, the center turnbuckle is MUCH easier to adjust than the jam nuts at the ends. the mini arm design, as is everything, is a compromise among competing factors. one of which is ease of assembly/adjustment.

you dudes should check out the control arms from out pace racing. they are all steel heim joints with grease fittings. this avoids the inevitable compression/wear you get with teflon-lined heims. (the glass filled teflon linings are better, but still not as good as greased steel on steel.) you can get them with either aluminum hex arms or welded steel arms.

i just got a set with the chrome moly pieces, but haven't finished making the extra pieces needed for a mini install.

 

None of what I said was incorrect. That being said, none of what you said is incorrect either but has nothing to do with what I said. I merely said that there will be lateral loads on control arms and as an engineer that has built a couple race cars I won't be putting center turn buckles on my car.

 

If you have heims or spherical bearings at each end, and the heims are properly used (not binding or over articulated) there will NEVER be lateral force on the control arm. With a traditional bushing, there might be a very small bending force on the arm, but in the overall picture, this force is small. The control arm is simply a tension/compression member. Now, it is possible that if improperly designed arm could begin to buckle due to exceeding it's critical compressive force, which can cause it to bend, but this is not going to be due to lateral force.

Jason

 

I bought SPC arms. THey look real nice sitting in the box on the floor of my garage .... :/

 

Whatever, I give up posting here again... clearly I know nothing.

 

OK, I'll try an explanation:

If the control arm was attached to the car at a single tiny point at each end (text book example), then the only forces would be tension and compression. But, in the real world, the control arm is 3D. It has depth at each joint and thus will exert some lateral/rotational loads on the control arm.

 

Did anyone ever weigh the various control arms? OEM vs SPC vs IE vs Alta, etc? I agree that strength is more important then weight but, would still like to have the comparison data.

 

As an SCCA member for 37 years, I have raced G-Production, F-Production, Showroom Stock, B-Sedan. I have tracked and auto crossed my Mini so it is natural that I have an interest in weight. Am I going to "Race" my Mini.... no probably not. Let me tell you what you can do with the donut... no, I really don't want to go there.

 

...

 

Haaa....
I always love posting this picture. Mini lower control arms used to break a lot. I've seen several. Seems their design did not consider "lateral" forces either. Note, they all broke in the middle of the arm, .. not near the bushings.
As I've always said, show me one high performance, or full out race car the has a control arm that's split in the middle. It's a lame design. But, for those that choose it because of it's ease of adjustment, then you have what you want, just several pounds heavier to compensate for the poor design.

 

By the way, ... I like mine the best....

 

Sorry, kinda thought it was a joke... but was it really necessary?

Besides... I'm old

 

Who needs a rear sway bar, that will give you all the over steer you can handle

 

So, Onasled, are you saying the SPC design is the bad one?

 

No, I'm there now and they're still wrong.

It's simple guys, it really is. The z-axis is parralell to the center bar, the x and y are left and right and up and down looking at it from the top. The heim joints do not transmit any force in the x and y. It just doesn't happen. Period. Unless they are designed wrong, or they seize. Also the bearings could not be pressed in the center of the head? Do an experiment guys, take a rear control arm and put a shaft on both ends, do not exceed the range of movement of the heim joints. Stand on one shaft and try to have it resist your movement in any direction but up and down. If it does you have either moved it more than 10 or so degrees or your heims need replacing.

I am speaking for heim joints, not pillowballs. If the arm does have a pillow ball you may be able to load it laterally somewhat.

 

Well, "I" think so. Bad enough that it has to be that heavy to compensate for it's poor design.
Understand that most all my responses here on NAM come from a racing and high performance point of view. What I am not understanding about this is the fact that the point of adding an aftermarket arm is to enhance performance, .. so why do so in an inferior way?

 

I've only had the Altas and the H-Sports so far, and I'm about to try the IEs on a different car. I strongly disliked the Altas. They started making loud clanking noises almost immediately after installing them due to the arm rotating on it's axis and hitting up against the limits of the heim joints. IMO, as a total noob when it comes to this stuff, the heim joint seems like a sub-optimal component to use for the arm ends. The inner nut on the Altas was also very difficult to adjust due to its position.

The H-Sport arms look and feel significantly beefier, the bushings are solid and easy to lube, and they were much easier to adjust.

I'm diggin' the ones on onasled's car. They look like little aluminum baseball bats