Yes and no...there is less control, but more comfort and accuracy over undulations and bumps. Grip level is off a wee bit because the camber kit is gone...but on center feel is better without 2.25 deg neg camber. The only relic left is the Webb Bar which is now giving me headaches; the bar ends will not stay on the torque tube. They become loose after about a week and then migrate a little here and there. And let me tell you, that ain't fun.

Stock is still a trade-off, but one that better suits this car's duty - broke 100,000K yesterday. So, to the original poster, if you learn to drive well, you are still a good driver no matter what you drive. I'm a former Category 3 bicycle racer. Lance Armstrong's book, It's Not About the Bike...well, the equipment isn't everything...I'm sure we can take that into the gutter quicker than the Mini reaches 60 mph...

Learn to drive well and you will appreciate what you have even more...looks aside.

 

^^ more accurate over undulations.. this is key on street.

it has to be able to take on the general terrain....which will result in
general performance. not meant to be precise. it would have to be
an active suspension if it was precise on the changing road conditions...
and that is very expensive and therefore would not be a good
compromise at all.

the webb rear bar has too much adjustability for street. i would
swap it out for a simple 19 or 22mm bar.

 

...it's been fine for about 40K miles. I don't know what's up with it Perhaps a little Red locktite...

 

Well, no - actually, the best single thing you can do to get around the track faster is to toss your large, heavy wheels, and replace them with a wheel no larger than 16" and no heavier than perhaps 15 lbs.

Keeping the tires in contact with the pavement is a LOT more important to performance than the height of the center of gravity...

 

Uhm well Rick, you've basically undone everything ever written about how a car actually works. The contact patch is affected more by the center of gravity, roll centers and instantaneous centers than you give credit. These affect load distribution and camber compensation and therefore determine how much work a tire can do.

If going around a track fast was the sole responsibility of tires, the entire automotive world would have a very different face. But if you want to believe tires make all the difference, we'll let you keep that as your secret.

And 16lbs isn't a light wheel by track standards. My garden variety everyday 17" BBS wheels weigh in at 16lbs.

 

meb, your bbs are waay heavy. my SSR's are 11.5lbs. so i must
go real fast around the track.

 

Like an earlier poster, I'm running the TSW springs... a smidge lower (3/4 to 7/8), but stiffer, linear-rate springs (on stock dampers). I like the way that the stiffer springs catch the car sooner after a real world bump and the sure-footedness of the car in a hard turn is wonderful. I drove an '07 MCS a few days ago and everything got squishy in the middle of my favorite u-turn and the whole car twisted and shifted weight in a way I wasn't ready for after a year of driving on the TSW springs.

 

Even at 10 lbs lighter per corner than the standard fare, I cannot control the car with more ease. It takes more than light wheels and grippy tires to create a good handling 'track' car.

I like those SSRs!!! A wee bit too light for everyday in New York...we got pot holes...you've seen'm...three guys with butt crack, fives days unshaven, orange T-shirt barely covering their bear belly, smokin some nasty thing...all starrin at a pothole and saying, "that ain't no pot hole"...as they point to my mini stuck in one...now that's a pot hole. True story.

 

I'm sure for a very bumpy track, unsprung weight differences will make much more of a difference than on a very smooth track... But whatever...

To the original poster, most of the stuff offered for the mini is street plus. If you really mean race suspension, brake out the checkbook like the tsw post above....

What do you really want? (looks from lowering, improved camber, less roll..)
Where do you want the benefits? (street, track etc...)
How much work are you really willing to do? (Set up per track, or just bolt on and forget)
And most importantly, what's your budget?

From these answers, you'll figure out what type of components you want, then you can narrow the manufacturer or sales outlet....

Start with planning, and go from there!

Matt

 

Hey guys, call me a simpleton, but the JCW suspension (which lowered my car about .5 to .75 inch) and an H-sport comp. rear swaybar made a noticeable and positive difference in how my car feels/handles for spirited street use. I love it. Didn't have to study physics, suspension travel dynamics etc. Granted, half an inch doesn't close much fender gap, but as a daily driver, I'll trade the cool ultra-low looks for driveablility of my JCW set-up. And MEB, great story about NYC potholes. I can clearly see the picture you painted.

 

True, but sad! The butt crack that is

 

You'll be happy to know that I'm over 81,000 now with your old suspension!!

 

Excellent thread with very good information. Here's another interesting article about lowering Macpherson strut cars, which applies to both MINIs and BMWs: http://e30m3performance.com/myths/We...t_transfer.htm

I put H-Sport springs on my MINI because it lowered it only an inch, which IMO is a good trade off between looks and performance.

 

cow tipping and now butt cracks... you must have the best(?) of both
worlds there.

 

1. Better camber and looks more than anything
2. I need it more on the street but would like to do an occasional NASA track day. Maybe 2-5 per year.
3. I'd like to set up and forget it
4. Whats left after 275 for payment, 125 for insurance, cell phone, 2 credit cards, and 2 school payment.
I was thinking TSW springs on Koni yellows. Any opinions?

 

Not if the suspension cannot react quickly enough or with enough stroke to keep the contact patch connected to the pavement.

Lowering, of course, reduces suspension travel, and large unsprung weight reduces suspension 'reactivity'. Both of these reduce adhesion when cornering on non-new roads, which have tar strips, frost heaves, potholes, and repairs - or perhaps your roads are maintained a lot better than Oregon's...

My only point being that road tracks get a lot better maintenance than real roads, so optimizing a car for the track or the show is not necessarily the best idea if what you want is great performance on your local mountain hairpins (my specific interest).

BTW, SSR Comps on my MCS are 9 lbs. each, and I've "lowered" my car about 1/4" by tire size choice, an approach I recommend...

 

To answer the first question: YES, it is worth it. Handling, stance/looks...

 

I have TSW springs with IE adjustable Camber plates.

My car sits a little lower because it is an auto and has the sunroof.

No problems so far.

 

To answer the original question: like everything else, some would say Yes. others No. Still others would say, "It depends..."
6^)

 

Right on. The factory realizes that there are very few people that will pay for a better suspension unless it also lowers the car to some extent. So, they throw in a token 1/2" drop. But the key to it is that the spring rates are designed around the dampers, so it works very well on the car. A great product for the street. IMO, you're not going to lower a MINI very much, giving up what little travel there is, and be pleased with the results on the street-at least the streets of New England......

As far as looks go, with factory sized tires, I have a two finger gap front and rear, which looks perfect to me. With cars that are radically lowered, they often have no gap on top, but still have gaps in the front and back, which looks wrong to me.

 

We had the H-sports on (lowers it just less then 7/8" I think) and the ride was absolutely TERRIBLE on the streets but it was definitely faster for autox.

We took them off.

I know a large part of the bad ride was the fact that we run the 18" JCW wheels on hockey-pucks but it was so bad we never wanted to drive it day to day on our crappy Manitoba roads (with pot holes the size of a smart car). We want to ENJOY the MINI!

I'm sure better shocks would help the decrease in supension travel but we're not preapred to spend a small fortune on these (yet). Unfortuantely, the FSDs (which are the ones my hubby WOULD spring for) are not recommended with the lowering springs

 

Dinan and Ireland Engineering have fixed ones. I'd go with the IEs... They should get you close to -2 up front.
Since budjet is an issue, I'd watch the marketplace for a set up that is good enough for you. I found my Ledas that way, even after I added a different set of springs, they were much cheaper than new. Even after my first rebuild they will still have been cheaper than new... Anyway, a lot of nice hardware moves in the marketplace.
Then take $20 of all that cash you saved, and send me a six pack of Harp Lager!

Matt

 

Rick,

This is complex subject and buried within it are ideals and reality. Of course stroke length is important...so is slow and highspeed damping...as is spring rate and a whole bunch of other things.

But the point you are missing here is that the CofG, roll centers and instant centers affect the forces acting on a car. spring and damping rates should be choesen based upon those forces and desired drving venue or market.

The swing arm affects camber compensation and given the limitations found in a Mac strut, camber loss is a concern at some point in the suspension stroke. So if folks indiscriminately lower car without knowing the affects, selcting a proper spring or damping is like sticking one's finger in the air to check for wind speed.

These things I wrote about are fundamental to good handling. Nothing wrong with sticky tires, and good springs, but if the fundamental picture is off, everything else is skewed. But I still submit, lowering the center of gravity is the single best thing one can do for handling. but, one cannot go thru this exercise without first considering all the other ill effects that may come as a result. Tires do make a huge contribution to handling and as such are an easy way to improve what one has. But this was about lowering and my comments were geared toward the original poster's question.

 

I've got Blue Moon and Hoegaarden. I'd go for the Moon myself.
I'll throw this out there and hope for a defintite answer. Or at least enough popular opinions. Will I get the best possible of both worlds with say, TSW springs on Koni yellows?

 

I haven't run or ridden in a car with TSW / Koni Yellows, but it certainly sounds like a good solution. When my JCW suspension finally goes, that's something I'll be looking at. But I'll probably also be looking for a narrower spring so I can get some more camber out of my adjustable front camber plates. Which, of course, makes things even more complicated. :(