Well folks, some mabye not so good news about the new swaybar design from mini-madness. It is not secure enough in the lateral movement. I am wokring on designing new Control Arms for Pilo Racing, but found the sway bar now rubbing the spring. I know that when I installed it, it was not touching the spring, so it has moved.. So I just give a good tug, and the whole thing slides back and forth with out much problem. I'm not sure that this is a good thing, and they should have kept the extra stabalizers... I'm going to do some more testing with it to find a way to fix. I will post some pics in a bit... Need to put my car back together...

 

woah woah, which revision sway bar do you have???

 

Heard about problems with the new design already on the grapevine. Poor fit, inaccurate holes, need to preload one side to get the links to line up. Not good! The original product was excellent.

 

I have the new version... THe fit is ok... the holes were ok on mine.. this seems to be a design flaw, not a manufacturing flaw...

 

Here are the pictures... The first picture is the bar the way it was when I took my wheel off.. THe second is when I pulled it out all the way by hand... The proper place is somewhere in the middle...

Picture 1

Picture 2

 

I can see by your pictures that you have it on the tightest position which is the problem I think. The instructions should say that the inner most hole is meant only for folks with coilovers due to the smaller size of the spring on the coilovers. The stock springs (and aftermarket springs) are wider and will get some rub on the bar.

As for the ability to move it back and forth, well ya, you should be able to. Sway bars should have some give. I don't think there's anything wrong with the play you have. MANY others have received the new design without any problems. But please call us to discuss, we're happy to assit. :smile:

The original had two holes which both worked with the stock springs. The new bar has 3 so that race people could go really stiff if they had coilovers.

For comparison's sake:

ORIGINAL

___O__O

NEW
__O__O_O

It's not really that off, but you get the idea. The middle hole is just barely behind where the original tightest setting was. The new tightest setting is just barely more than the original tightest. The new first hole is less than either of the original holes, but still stiffer than stock.

Hope that helps!

R

 

That's interesting news as others have been recommending the stiffest setting all along but have never mentioned any rub, of course they may have had different springs as well...

I'm still concerned though. Wouldn't that much back and forth freedom of movement tend to put additional stress/wear on the drop links?

Jim

 

I'll give this a shot... really like how it handels on the highest setting though...... Well, I guess I can't have my cake, and eat it too...

Thanks,
Dan
Pilo Racing

>>I can see by your pictures that you have it on the tightest position which is the problem I think. The instructions should say that the inner most hole is meant only for folks with coilovers due to the smaller size of the spring on the coilovers. The stock springs (and aftermarket springs) are wider and will get some rub on the bar.
>>
>>As for the ability to move it back and forth, well ya, you should be able to. Sway bars should have some give. I don't think there's anything wrong with the play you have. MANY others have received the new design without any problems. But please call us to discuss, we're happy to assit. :smile:
>>
>>The original had two holes which both worked with the stock springs. The new bar has 3 so that race people could go really stiff if they had coilovers.
>>
>>For comparison's sake:
>>
>>ORIGINAL
>>
>>___O__O
>>
>>NEW
>>__O__O_O
>>
>>It's not really that off, but you get the idea. The middle hole is just barely behind where the original tightest setting was. The new tightest setting is just barely more than the original tightest. The new first hole is less than either of the original holes, but still stiffer than stock.
>>
>>Hope that helps!
>>
>>R

 

well, my RevB swaybar is en-route right now from Madness, so I'll add my $0.02 on install and function when I install it Thursday night.

 

I just installed the nextGen swaybar from Madness and it works fine - no rubbing, no movement about which to be alarmed. I also have it on the stiffest setting.

I will keep my eye on it now, though. Thanks for the heads-up Pilo!

 

I have removed som of the excess Lubricant, and will see how it is.... I know there is a way to make it work, so I'm just going to keep at it..

 

I know this is kind of a random reply to the thread, but...

Just an update on the install of a rear sway bar: You don't have to remove the 21mm bolt that holds the shock to the lower control arm/hub. If you just remove the two 13mm upper bolts ((pic 2 in how-to) that hold the whole spring/shock to the chasis you can pivot it back enough to get the bar out. This saves a little bit of time and may keep you from going to get a 21mm socket. To get the shock to pivot out, just push down on the whole hub and attached stuff and the spring/shock will move down out of the "nest" and can be swung towards the back of the car. After you do this you can get to the two bolts that hold the bushings onto the subframe. Getting it back into place is the same procedure, just put your body weight on the hub assembly and guide the shock in.

Heres a link to what I'm talking about (look at picture :

http://outmotoring.com/How_to_rearswaybar.html

...and hey, no jokes about the gloves...I already took some heat for the last how-to on brake pads...I only had one glove left that day.
http://www.outmotoring.com/How_to_Brakepadsft.html

For a few more simple how-to's:

http://www.outmotoring.com/Project_Out_Motoring.html

 

I have to agree with not removing the 21mm. That was the hardest part to get back in, so it should make the install go even faster!

 

>>I have the new version... THe fit is ok... the holes were ok on mine.. this seems to be a design flaw, not a manufacturing flaw...

Hey MP, do you have rev A or B? I got one of the first of rev A with 3 holes and called Randy from the garage floor to say WTF????? I couldn't have gotten the third hole to clear my stock springs without bending the link or at least having contact. How the hell did you get them on there? And you drove them without breaking links? My H-sprt springs stiffened up the rear even more. I don't think they would even allow #3. Back off to the middle hole and see if you have any problem.

 

OK people, let's get this sorted correctly!

Madness rear sway bar has gone through three revisions, count with me...
Rev0 (aka Revision one): two holes with lateral plates welded in place
RevA (aka Revision two): three holes with lateral plates welded in place
RevB (aka Revision three): three holes with new template designed by Randy modeled after the factory MCS bar, using bends in bar to limit lateral movement instead of welded plates.

---> BlueMCS: your RevA bar was not designed such that normal springs and the forward-most hole can be used simultaineously - aka for racing applications (read: coilovers) ONLY

The RevB bar was designed such that all three holes can be used with OEM-style equipment (like H-Sport or H&R springs), and racing coilovers are not required.

The drama with the RevB Round One was that the holes were not drilled correctly, causing misalignment when using anything but the middle holes The RevB Round Two (now shipping, at least in theory) has corrected this error, and should be 100% problem free. From MiniPilo's pictures, I can't tell which revision bar he has. Most likely, he made a mistake in the installation.

...and that's how it goes!
Cheers,
Ryan

 

-- I can't tell which revision bar he has. Most likely, he made a mistake in the installation.

If I may, I will speak on behalf of MiniPilo by saying that he has rev B (from a group buy on MINI2). I'm eye-balling mine now on the living room floor waiting to get installed tomorrow morn...

I do think that MiniPilo has rev B, round 1. I believe his hole alignment was not near as bad as others and he decided to keep his. Correct? At least that is what I recall. If so, that might explain some of the fit issues...

-- The RevB bar was designed such that all three holes can be used with OEM-style equipment (like H-Sport or H&R springs), and racing coilovers are not required.

But then, wasn't it Davbret above who said that rev b stiffest setting was designed for coilover use - not stock or aftermkt springs?

Very confusing...

 

" -- I can't tell which revision bar he has. Most likely, he made a mistake in the installation.

If I may, I will speak on behalf of MiniPilo by saying that he has rev B (from a group buy on MINI2). I'm eye-balling mine now on the living room floor waiting to get installed tomorrow morn... "

That is Correct, I have the Rev B Bar. No Lateral Supports, and mine actaully were pretty straight and didn't give me any reason for concern.

As for an installation Error. That is definatly not what happened becaus the install is very simple... And I have rechecked every thing before I put it back together.

My only thought is that possibally it shifted when being jacked up or down. If so, Check your alignment when you have the wheels on and are all done by putting your hand throught the wheel on both sides, and check for clearence.

If it is dry here in NJ tomorrow I am going to do some more research

 

>>---> BlueMCS: your RevA bar was not designed such that normal springs and the forward-most hole can be used simultaineously - aka for racing applications (read: coilovers) ONLY
>>
>>The RevB bar was designed such that all three holes can be used with OEM-style equipment (like H-Sport or H&R springs), and racing coilovers are not required.
>>


Just4Fun -

Does hole 2 on Rev A equate to hole 3 on Rev B (providing that it was drilled correctly)? If Pilo were to back off to hole 2 would that be so bad? It sounds like the design change for location control is not sufficient to handle the loads generated by the stiffest setting. Does anyone test these things? Do they have any concept of QC?

 

I just need the time to test it at hole 2. I gotta try some stuff out when I get the time..

 

ACK.

After talking to Ryephile this weekend I got curious and pulled my wheel off. I have an early version from about January? It has 2 holes and I have it on the front setting. It looks as though the bar is rubbing on the springs.

-J

 

Is your bar the one with the "welded washers" on it, or is it angled?

I've got the original on my car with the "welded washers". I've noticed a TINY bit of rub on my KW springs. Barely enough to scratch the paint off. That's normal. Sway bars are designed to move slightly. With it in the tight setting as you described a minor scrape of the springs under aggressive corner loading is possible and nothing to be even the slightest bit worried about. The HSport bar does the same thing. :smile: :smile:

R

 

So....it sounds like version A is the best way to go? The one with the washers and three holes?

 

I know that I would feel better having the lateral support. I don't think that "movement" of a say bar is a good thing. I would have liked to see them carry that design feature into this version. I still like the hadeleing increase it has had on the car though so it's not all bad

 

It was my understanding that the RevB Madness rear anti-sway bar was designed such that the bends in the bar restricted lateral bar movement. The OEM bar uses this design element. Sooooo, what gives? I have a hard time buying that the sway-bar design is so space-restricted that they all "must" rub on the springs! I know this is not the case because some aftermarket bars do NOT rub.
Do I smell a Madness RevC in the very near future? One that has sufficient clearance for springs while using the OEM-style lateral bends.

:???:

 

>>It was my understanding that the RevB Madness rear anti-sway bar was designed such that the bends in the bar restricted lateral bar movement. The OEM bar uses this design element. Sooooo, what gives? I have a hard time buying that the sway-bar design is so space-restricted that they all "must" rub on the springs! I know this is not the case because some aftermarket bars do NOT rub.
>>Do I smell a Madness RevC in the very near future? One that has sufficient clearance for springs while using the OEM-style lateral bends.
>>
>>