This seasons budget= Around $700
I have a stock MCS with Pilo cold air intake and new Conti extreme contact all seasons 215/17/45 on stock 17" wheels.

1. Camber plates + Sway bar?

2. Konis?

3. Lightweight 15"x6.5" wheels with AzenisRS tires?

Which one would you pick and why?

 

Sorry, just realized I posted this in the wrong place. Moderator please move.
Thanks

 

Moving to STX forum...

Regarding your question....personally if all you have done is the cold air intake I would actually re-install the OEM intake (putting in an aftermarket filter) and run in G-Stock. The reason I say this is that I ran STX last year and it is a big money pit and introduces what I think are a lot of compromises into the car that make it unpleasant for daily driving. If you aren't going to compete at the national level I think that $700 is better spent on a couple of Evolution driving schools and then buying a set of lightweight wheels and R compound tires (not that $700 will cover all this but it will give you a great start with lots of seat time).

I hope this helps.

Mark

 

I tried to post before the move and missed it by this much ||. For $700 I would go with Kosei K1s in 15x7 (why stop at 6.5" width) from TireRack and Azeni, and take any left over money, and put towards a driving school- Evo Phase I, or a good local school. The quickest gains in mods are the tires, whereas shocks take a deft hand to realize the full potential, and you have the learning curve that can be steep at times. Camber plates and the sway are the last on the list I would do. However, you may be able to find a stock Cooper front bar (non-SS+) for a song and that will help with understeer by softening the front end to keep more weight on the inside front wheel in tight sections. Or just do what Mark has suggested, you can be closer to the top with the Monzas and R Compounds.

 

I would tend to agree with Mark. If you are new to autox, then I'd recommend you just put the stock intake back on an run in G Stock. Autox this season in GS and spend your $700 on driving schools - for example the Evolution school.

When I started autoxing, I already had the cold air intake and non stock aftermarket wheels, so I ran in STX. I spent a ton of $ on the car last year to make it more competitive in STX. In hindsight, I should've just run GS, bought the AK Monza wheels and some Kumho R compounds, and learned to drive better.

Just my 2 cents

David

 

You're breakin' my heart Dave we had fun together battling all of the variables on your budget!

I agree with Mark and Dave. BUT, that said, if you're going to ignore those recommendations, don't spend a dime on anything until you have a Quaife. If you have any inkling of running STX, the Quaife is THE most important mod you'll do. Heck, I wish I had one in mine just for the streetability, but then I wouldn't be able to run G Stock either...

Brian

 

Okay, I have a slightly different take on all of this, but I guess I come from a different perspective.

I only compete locally, I've never done a divisional or national event, and I don't really plan to.

When I was considering what class I wanted to run the car in, the first thought was convenience. I don't like changing tires at an event. So STX (especially with the favorable PAX if you plan to run novice) was my choice.

Please note that none of these mods (except the rear sway bar) were done solely for autocross, but also for street driving.

Since I got the car with x-lites and all season run flats, those are my winter tires. I purchased a set of Prodrive P1s and Yoko AVS ES 100s ($1000) for summer driving and autocross. Then I added a set of H sport springs ($215) and an RDR adjustable rear swaybar ($200). Now I like the way the car looks, and the way it handles just with these mods. And I plan to be VERY competitive here in Charlotte in STX like this (I'll find out how competitive this weekend).

My car has a sunroof, so I know it isn't the best starting point for an all out-autocross car anyway. I would really like to do camber plates (mainly because I think there will be a pay-back in tire wear) next year, and after the warranty is gone maybe I'll do the LSD. (I do agree that the LSD is the single most important thing from an autocross time standpoint, but it is VERY expensive, and invasive.)

 

I understand what your saying. It definitely makes sense...Except the part about STX's favorable PAX??
STX has to be faster than D Stock, so clearly, you'd be better off in G Stock. Now, if you're talking about a car already modded, then yes, it's better in STX then DSP or SM.

Brian

 

Oops. I guess I should have probably checked the PAX before I said that. I thought STX was 'slower' than GS. I guess I was still thinking DS vs. STS when I had my BMW.

Thanks for the clarification.

Travis

 

Thanks for your input and opinions. I am goint to stay in G stock. Learn to drive fast before I spend fast.

 

What is PAX?

Your freindly neighborhood autocross newbie wannabee...

 

PAX is a handicapping system used to even out different classes.

It is simply a modifier that is applied to a given car's time.

Slower classes have a lower modifier.

If you run in novice, you are generally put in a class that uses the PAX to determine winners.

To give you an idea, in our event yesterday, I ran STX. I won my class, and had the 22nd fastest time overall. But after the PAX was applied, I finished 8th overall.

This link has a pretty good explanation, but you have to scan for it.

 

My take on it is similar to and more in line with Yellow Mini's. I plan on doing things to my MINI just for the pure enjoyment of the car and making it look the way I want to, such as a different set of springs, different wheels, intake. I'll keep my stock S-lites and run-flats for long-distance use, so I want to have street tires on my aftermarket rims.

With the mods I plan to do though, I'll fall into the STX category, which is fine with me because I only plan on doing some local and regional autocrossing, and probably not with any regularity. Basically I just want to have some fun in the MINI, and taking it to a few autocrosses seems to be a good way to do it.

I do realize that I'll probably end up wanting to put further mods on the car like camber plates, different anti-roll bar, shocks, LSD, but I expect that I'll have fun regardless.

As to the original qustion: Out of the options you present, I would go with the lighter wheels. I drove a friend's Cooper S with light wheels on it after driving mine with the S-lites, and there is a huge difference in performance. Out of the options you present, it's probably the greatest performance gain to be had.

 

minifinn,

Good to hear you are interested in Autocrossing your MINI.
The advice you are hearing is very sound about staying in G-stock at least for starting out.

Azenis Sports are good but so are Kumho Ecsta V700 and Victoracers.
Azenis you can drive on the street but not the Kumho's (track only use).

 

For $700 I'd trade the 17s for some factory 16s (should be able to do it for nothing or even get a little money back), mount some 215/45/16 Azenis, change the rear swaybar, and get as much seat time as possible.

 

If minifinn wants to stay in G-stock then he cannot change the rear swaybar.
Only drop in air filter, any front swaybar, any cat-back exhaust and DOT legal street tires of which Falken Azenis Sport will work for track and street.
You'd find Azenis sport in 16" diameter to fit (215/45-16) but not in the 17" sizes.

Autocross seattime and driving school is always good.

 

I thought the question was how to best spend $700 to prep the car for STX

 

Yes, that is the thread question but given the list of mods minifinn had it seemed like if he wanted to be competitive in autocross and if he hadn't sunk in too much money into mods yet, that he might be better off starting in G-stock.

He has a stock MCS with piloracing intake and new Conti 17" tires.
So if he lost the intake and put in a drop in filter and maybe just ran with that setup he could do OK or change to performance tires like Bridgestone potenza Pole position S-03 or Goodyear eagle F1 DS-G3 then that might work a bit better in the 215/45-17 size.

As for STX, the problem is one mod leads to another mod and soon you are not spending $700 but more like $3000-6000. Why? Because you need to look at the total balance of the MINI and what limits you have with each system. For example you can upgrade the suspension all you want but without good wheels/tires you will be at a disadvantage because those upgrades are allowed in STX. So adding Konis alone is not going to help as much as a full suspension upgrade including camber plates for the front and lower rear control arms in the rear so you can adjust negative camber front and back.

Again changing just wheels is nice but you won't be able to use competition tires to their full extent until you address the suspension and camber issues.
So it is a catch-22. Better to run the stock MINI with a few changes and get more experience and spend the $700 on driving school and seat time. Light wheels and R-compound tires are a good option and a start.

The other issue is once you tune your MINI for autocross, how street drivable is it? It's a compromise. With G-stock you have a street car being used for autocross not an autocross tuned car used on the street.

 

Ok, my end of season self assessment:
I did OK in G stock as a Novice. I ran the lighter 16" MCS wheels I picked up cheap with 215/45/16 Azenis tires, a GC Lock, and a couple of Novice schools run by National champs. I ended up 2nd in the regional standings in G stock behind a guy who trophied at Topeka running a prepped Celica with R comps, and came this close to winning Regional Novice Champ against a guy running R compound tires with a D stock WRX. I learned a lot this season. Some say I could compete easily in CenDiv with "real tires" and show a knack for this sport.

Enough about past season. The reason I posting this in STX is this:

1. The MCS '05 with LSD is now in G stock (for now).
2. I don't see myself spending $800/season on Hoosiers to win regionals.
3. I will probably stay at the regional level with occasional forays at local
divisional events.
4. I'm only about a second behind the top regional STX drivers in well
prepped WRX's.
5. College tuition is looming large for my kids.

So, I'm thinking incremental upgrades and having fun in STX and be competitive (at least regionally) with an eye on Divisionals and maybe Nats in the future.

I have now:

- Azenis (only 50 runs) with lighter 16 stock MCS wheels
- Pilo cold air intake

I thinking:

- camber plates
- a good alignment
- adjustble rear control arms
- sway bar(s)
- Maybe a SuperTrapp
- Quaife LSD

My limits: About $800-$1000 per year budget. I need to drive this car daily for the next couple of years.

What would you recommend and in what order.

 

Having run STX for 2 years now, here's my take

• Quaife is key to being competitive with a MCS in STX but is your budget for 2 years (~$1900 w/install)
• Driving Schools - Evolution (phase I & II) or others (~$200 ea)
• Rear swaybar - not very much $ (~$200) and not hard to do yourself
• Front camber plates (~$600) also easy to DIY
• Good alignment (~$60 to $90)
• Supertrapp (~$200) with install is more, adds some HP but mostly reduces weight
• Assuming you leave the springs and shocks stock and therefore don't lower the car, then you really don't need the adjustable rear control arms

You can do the driving school (more than one a year is good), the rear swaybar, the front camber plates, and a good alignment the first year.

Or, do the Quaife first, and all of the rest the next year.

David

 

Thanks David,

I like the idea of the Evo School. I'm going to hold off on the Quaife and do the other stuff with Evo school. I'm handy with a wrench but the LSD is outta my league.

RE: The Camber plates. What do you recommend to look for in good camber plates? I intend to have the alignment set at the beginning of the season and try to leave it alone. I understand adjusting just the camber effects toe etc..
With that in mind, do I really need the caster adjustment in the plates also? What about the bushing materials of the various brands being an issue?

Your wisdom and experience is appreciated!

 

I've tried the P&D camber plates and now use the RDR plates.

The bushing material needs to be strong enough to hold up to stresses of autocrossing. My RDR's have had lots of runs on them and are solid. I would recommend you consider the H Sports as well as they will work with the stock shock tops (as do the RDR's).

Since I run coilovers and have switched them out a few times I generally do an alignment after I make any major changes to the suspension. So do the camber plates then get your alignment.

I don't think having caster adjustment is a big deal. The P&D camber plates do, the RDR's can only adjust camber. When I had the P&D plates I never changed the caster from the stock values.

You should be able to get from -2 to -2.2 degrees of negative camber in the front with the stock shocks and springs and the RDR's.

 

Having caster and camber adjustment just gives you more to play with. If you do get plates that allow for both then set the caster to maximum positive for use with autocross- this helps give a little more negative camber when cornering hard as well.

I have the RDR plates with H-sport springs and my alignment shop said that they could have set my front camber to more than -2.4 degrees. I selected -2.2 degrees and that has worked well for me with front toe out 1/16". Next year I might try for autocross -2.4 or -2.5 degrees with 1/8" toe out. I'm watching my tire wear on the inside edge to see how it does with the current setting both on the track and on the street.

 

While it is true that having caster as an adjustment gives you more options, it is not necessary for someone who will only autox in their local region and is on a budget.

Sometimes with suspension settings the more options you have is not a good thing -- considering how easy it is to make things worse instead of better.

I have the PSS9 bilstein coilovers and the car handles very differently depending on how the 9 position rebound adjustment is set. Its taken me 8 autox events to sort out how to set this one adjustment to get the car to respond they way I like - oh yeah, and if I run on concrete the opposite of what I learned applies -- and if it's wet and cold it requires another different rebound setting.

my point here is that simpler is sometimes better -- and usually cheaper