in all kindness... check your math... people are tending to forget that his car had a 17% + a 2%. do the math on that... take a 17% pulley and a 2% pulley add 7500rpm in the mix and what do you get? voila... an enormous amount of heat!!!!!

seriously do the math on 17% + 2% +7500rpm... then think about how much heat you are generating! Heat kills motors... that is likely what killed this motor...

 

Not necessarily true. There were a number of guys running a 19% plus a FOUR percent crankhaft from Alta for awhile.None of them had a reported piston failure of any kind. If that was a issue their cars would have burst into flame If you can find one reported falure of a piston due to mechanical issues you will find 10 related to the tune.

 

well... like I have said... regaurdless of what combos are used or have been used... I think it was a total combo here... not just one combo or antoher but all...

people get all crazy about brand pride and I understand that... but this isn't about that.. I think it was just a bad sum of a few things.. and well that's all it takes..

no one part caused this... no one brand... no one person.. no one thing.... it was the sum of things that I foresaw knowing what I have been through... broken.... tested... etc... heck... I melted an SC once... know that? LOL 7500 RPMS 5 minutes with a 15% pulley in fifth... OW OW!

 

Trust me i preach more about dyno tuning your car on a dyno or on the street with a wide band than anyone!!!!!!!!!

sure there were a FEW people running a 19 + 4... but they were not reving as high as he was! Also, mario drives his car like a manic (like me) and im sure the people who were running 19 + 4s weren't driving it as hard as he does. Not that that is an excuess of why the car failed... just a reason why they may not have experianced any failures. ALso, if I remember correctly many of those 19 +4 ers were preaching about that they do it for all of the extra low end grunt... and they shift by 6k to 6500rpm...

And speaking of tunes, his car was tuned to run as effiecently as possible with a 17% pulley, head, header, exhaust, intake... blah blah blah...

IT WAS NOT TUNED FOR A 2%!!!!!!!! So really his car was UNTUNED when he blew up his motor. Anytime you change boost pressure you should always recheck your A/Fs.

A

 

Hey Justin, congrats on the air/water intercooler. My 17% +2% which is almost a 19% and my rev limiter is set at 7200 and I always shifted at 6500 to 6700 because the car didn't make anymore power after that. I don't think it was a problem of me over spining it. Also my car broke going 45mph in 4th gear on a day of 50 degrees outside. You think my car would have blown up on a day of 90 F with me redlining it at 7200. Also I did do a second dyno about 5 weeks after I got my car back from Fireballed and I gained a little bit of HP and my air/fuels were still in the high 10's to low 11's. I think the reason I go more HP on my own dyno is due to the dyno itself. I know DRS where my car was dyoned by Fireballed is a very accurate dyno and very hard to make power on.

 

well who knows.... coulda just been bad gas...

AND YES THAT CAAAN HAPPEN!! LOL that's another reason 91 sucks... it's inconsistent... besides just sucking... it's like a box of chocolates.... you never know what yer gunnah get...

 

I agree about the gas in Cali, that is one of the reason I only use Cheveron. Johnny and a couple other guys say once my car is put pack together with a stock crank pulley and a 15% supercharger pulley I will be able to raise my Rev limter to 8k. My question is spinning the M45 with a 19% to 7k rpm more than spinning it with a 15% to 8K rpm?

 

You wont regret going back to a 15%. My A/F ratios after getting the head put on were nuts with the 17%. I stepped back to a 15% and they are now back in the 12's. Also, the car feels much better now on the top end. I didn't notice any loss on the low end.

 

What type of software are you running and what is your rpm limiter?

 

I call Bulsh!t. Mario does drive his car hard as do most of us. But honestly, don't we all know that? I mean Mario has done more than most in 3 weeks than most ever do. If you are "tuning" a car for Mario or people like Mario I would have a +/- for variables. What about altitude, temperature, etc. It is just irresponsible to tune a car only with "good" gas, and a " large" intercooler.I sure M7 will have something to say about that too. A +2 underdrive pulley would only give you 1 or 2 lbs of boost at best, so do extranious variables in "real world" situations.

Perhaps it was a bad injector?

Tuls, I don't know you and I am not saying you are to blame, but you sure are getting defensive.

But there is no doubt that Mario ran lean. And if 1 lb of boost caused this
[FONT=Arial]Catastrophic failure then you need to remap your programs for street driven cars. [/FONT]

 

And speaking of tunes, his car was tuned to run as effiecently as possible with a 17% pulley, head, header, exhaust, intake... blah blah blah...

This was the point I have been trying to make, it was NOT tuned for the mods he added after the 17% and CAI.

Here is how he described his current state of tune .

My car had a flash done when it had a 17%, and CAI. The car ran strong and you could tell the flash pulled everything together. About 4 weeks after that I had a Head, Cam, Alta Aftercoler, exhaust, header, and 380 injectors installed and the car made 41whp more between the before and after dyno. My car was never been reflashed for all the new mods because they told me the air/fuel and eveythings else was in range and it was not worth touching to squeeze and extra 5hp out of the the car.

I can't see how you could have ONE correct tune for such a broad range of mods . If , as Mario says , it ran well with the 17% + CAI due to the flash how could those same parameters handle the new head, injectors,cam,header and exhaust but not a 2% pulley? Keep in mind that ther have been several hundred 2% or more pulleys sold without one documented failure pertaining directly to the pulley

As you correctly stated
Anytime you change boost pressure you should always recheck your A/Fs.

Should this not apply when changing head,cam injectors,header , exhaust ?


ALso, if I remember correctly many of those 19 +4 ers were preaching about that they do it for all of the extra low end grunt... and they shift by 6k to 6500rpm...

Mario mentioned in another post that he shifted at or before 6800 RPM so the rpm of the SC on his car was actually LESS than the 19+4 crowd.

So whats next ?

 

Boy this is getting Major.....

There is no doubt that Mario already reallllly misses his car...

Just give me a factory JCW car, DT BPV, Alta intake, Alta air diverter w/sprayer, an engine dampener, light wheels, some suspension goodies, and a good nights sleep.....

Today made me appreciate how much fun these cars are to drive.


I hope that I dont have to go through another incident, like I just had...
I couldnt even imagine dealing with Marios scene right now. This sucks...

Mario, you can come borrow my car if you need to..... I'll just trade you for your 521hp E55 kompressor...

That was a blast today BTW.

 

No. 7000rpm with a -19% produces the same supercharger speed (17,156rpm) as a -15% at 7240rpm or a 0% at 8330rpm.

While you could run a +2% crank pulley with the 0% stock pulley to 8000rpm I doubt you'd be very satisfied with the result unless that was in a twincharge setup. Or it may be time to consider straight turbo...

 

whats next? getting a little pompus aren't we?

well here goes...

the reason why i mentioned you should check your Afs after you increase boost is because thats all we were really talking about... i didn't feel the need to say that anytime you change heads, cams, throttle bodys, injectors, fuel pressure the list goes on and on and on... because the only thing we were talking about was BOOST!


you are wrong about the crank pulley.... there have been failures... i replaced a buddies engine because of it.

and actually we are in agreement... his car should have been tuned after the additional mods... but the failure isn't the fault of Fireball.

 

but mario has a 17 +2... and that doesn't equal 19 in this case

 

Yeah, but 15%@8000rpm is still spinning the supercharger way faster than either 18.9% or 19%@7000rpm .

 

Mario, why did you do that to your mini?
Not trying to cause trouble, just wondering what drove you to do such things to your car and expect good things to happen to it.

 

Dude this is a little harsh.....

Gee Mario, why did you do that to your mini?????

What drove you to do this and were you expecting good things to happen??

WTH!!!! Am I missing something here..... Is this for real?

 

And here lies the crux of the matter

Isellem

and actually we are in agreement... his car should have been tuned after the additional mods... but the failure isn't the fault of Fireball.[/quote]

According to Mario

My car was never been reflashed for all the new mods because they told me the air/fuel and eveythings else was in range and it was not worth touching to squeeze and extra 5hp out of the the car.

 

that is taken out of context based off the conversations that i have had with mario... they told him that before he did the 2%...

however... i did tell mario that if he got an afc i would tune it for him if he brought it to az... again this conversation took place before the 2%

 

I am running the JCW software and it is a 7200 limit.

Me and you are nearly identical in modification and power levels. 216/215.

I was running pretty dam lean on my last dyno session. I added an AEM wideband to my setup just to keep an eye on things. With the 17%, under boost I would see it go from about 13.6 at 4500 to 12.9 on the high side. Now with the 15, when I come under boost, I see 12.6 at 4500 to 11.9/12.3 on the top end, mind you I do have 93 available to me here.

The other thing that you are running that can help lean you out, especially on the low end is the BPV. You are forcing boost to come on sooner, the maps are probably not making up for that extra air - which causes you to run leaner.

You also unfortunatly have crap gas out there in CA. Lower octane increases the risk of detonation, which causes the car to pull timing, which increases cylinder temps.

There are some other added benifits to what a 15% will do:

1. Since this also spins the water pump, you are no longer overdriving it. With the 17's and the 1X + X% pulley setups out there, they spin the water pump faster which causes cavitation, which in turn causes the car to run hotter.

More heat = increased IAT = ignition retard = more heat and so the cycle continues until you blow something up.

2. Since the s/c is not being spun so dam fast, it isnt going to heat the air aas much. Since the air will be cooler, the I/C will be more efficient to begin with and your IAT's will be lower. Lower IAT's reduce the risk of timing being pulled, so you run cooler and have more power.


Have you considered getting some race gas and adding 2-3 gallons per fillup to help bump the octane a little?

 

Wow... what a mess...... I'm sorry Mario......

 

HOLY COW! ISELLEM.... YOU SEE THIS??!! some one who gets it! LOL

nice post Tampa...

 

yeah... it is a mess now huh... Mario I am sorry too... it sad this all went down... and it's sad this thread is what it is...

Mario PM me if you have any other questions

I'M OUT!

 

Not sure why would you say this like your an expert. You act as if I hurt you or a raped a child in your local town.
All I did was what pretty much what 60% of the members have done to their cars. I even went further by having dyno's done before, after and after again. Most people don't even do dyno's ever! It wouldn't bother me if you had useful advice but all you do is create these tiny phrases that help no one. I hope you are only like this on the boards and not in real life. I would feel sorry for your friends, wife and kids, because you would never be able to help them when life gets hard.