yeah and the tuning was ok for the dyno done that day with the head cam and injectors... IE was dyno tuned.... it was good... safe... etc.. I like you Mario... it sucks that this has happened... as they say in england you want to know where to get your car modded... go to the guys who are making the most power and going the fastest.... race on sunday sell on monday...

 

I agree it sucks for me but I will make the best out of it and maybe go ahead and put in the LSD, racing clutch and CP pistons. I just need to find out how much they are going to bore the motor out so I can order the right size pistons.
How is your 400whp Mini doing?
M

 

ha ha .. just fine... especially with he FMIC... huge difference.... she is very happy....

I am glad you are making the best of it.... thanks for understanding... most would point fingers... and I think you are keeping a level head understand that untimately **** happens.. and some times it's noones fault... I wish I was in LA man... I would help you out however I could... as for LSD etc.. get the right stuff.... spend the $ do it right the first time....

I look forward to your progresss

 

Any idea how lean?? Good luck, man. Very sorry to hear.

 

On the last dyno it never went above 11.5 and the low's went almost into the 9's. So maybe it was a bad injector, not sure. But I'm sure I will spend a pretty penny, I wonder is Visa has a Mini card out yet for people like me. I should be earning miles or points or something.
M

 

http://www.4myminicard.com/

 

LOL, damn I have no reason now not to get a turbo. They just make it so easy.

 

Just saw this thread Mario...don't be mad...out of your hands now...make it stonger!

 

Hey Mario, just saw this thread and wow I'm sorry to hear that in some way for you and feel optomistic in another way since you get to mod the car out even more. That's the positive way to think. Think bigger pistons,,yum yum,, and larger block if it comes to that. It's just another line of modding, just think that way.

Now you got me thinking about the mods I want to do with the head/cam. The other stuff are minor in comparison with Nology wires, NGK Spark plugs/wires and oil catch can.

Good luck and I will come by LA to visit and hopefully you have the car up and running much better than before. I love Minis and would do anything for it, it's the wife that I don't have,,,hahaha...

 

if you trust the guy then i'm truly sorry to hear about #1 .

 

#1 is the hottest running out of the 4.... in case people are curious..... or wundering why it was #1

 

my #4 is low by 25 due to starvation . so i feel for you . but it's a great excuse as you mentioned!!!

 

Now keep in mind this is all speaking in generalities but this is what confuses me . The most " popular " reason for the number 1 going away in The Mini is running too hot / lean. This is usually caused by improper fuel delivery whether it be a bad injector or wrong ECU tune . You mention that you had a tune put on the car when you had a 17% pulley and Cai. This tune made the car seem to perform well and you were happy with it. With this tune still in the car you add a performance head, cam, new aftercooler , exhaust , header and most importantly 380cc injectors. You were then told that the tune was still in range and most importantly safe with the new mods. I admit I do not know everything there is to know about the Mini but I have never heard of a tune that would safely cover such a broad range of mods. Case in point ,with the 380 cc injectors alone there should have been some sort of recalibration. How could the car be " rite " with stock injectors and still " rite " with ones that are much larger . My " guess " here is that along with all that new hardware there should have been a change in the software. Good luck with it and hpefully you will end up with a much better car than you had before.

 

he was not "TOLD" the tune was ok.. the car was put on the dyno and run... and it was very safe.. infact as he has stated a little rich.... a tune is not like a caborated car... it has a table of vaiables... accually it had MANY tables for variables... the tune was accually scaled for the injectors..

the time that the tune was NOT safe was when the car was modded with out retuning.. which took place at a different shop... a smaller IC was put on along with a 2% reduction on the crank pulley... with warning that it wasn't safe... I feel bad for mario and hate to keep bring this up... but he know I told him not to mod it that way cause I don't agree with it FROM EXPIRENCE and said it would endanger the motor... and if he did I would no longer be willing to work on the car cause it was modded in a way I think is "wrong"

so in that light you are right the tune was not intended for that


please no more bench racing and guesses... I mean no offence...

I just ask that as the mini mod world is finally getting some momentum... people have to start to understand that most that call them selves "tuners" are bolting stuff on... not accually tuning... and is very limited.... things aren't done that way at Fireballed.... you don't get 300+ HP per liter out of a 1.6L by bolting stuff on LOL... and the same goes for pulley cars... it takes proper tuning and thought out process to make the car accually FAST...

bolting on the stuff that Mario did after the tune was a hard lesson... but ultimately it's giving him the chance to more forward with where he wanted to go anyway... so maybe it's meant to be... LOL

 

Oh come on now

You add

Head
Cam
aftercooler
Exhaust
Header
380cc injectors

And its ok.

Add

2% pulley
different intercooler

And its not ?

This isnt bench racing , its math and it just doesn't add up.

 

well I guess you math is flawed... don't know what to tell you... you weren't there... and the tune was good... and yes a 2% and a small intercooler is enough to put the car over the top... it's a fine line the way things work... you can make 600 HP and be fine... but 601 can be enough to break... the amount of heat generated with the extra % and THEN to top it off put a smaller intercooler... uuuh yeah that's math... and it adds up just fine...

it's evident here in this example... in fact it's proven... cause everything was fine... till the extra mods...

but I am not going to argue what I know... think what you will...

heck, what do I know about any of this stuff....

you are just stirring the pot that NAM is so famous for... it's accually kinda funny....

 

Mario or Tuls,

Do you care to share which intercooler you are referring too?

 

I am pretty sure Mario previously had the Alta then switched to the M7.

I also find it hard to believe that the intercooler and 2% made that much of a difference. When Mario had he tuning done it was significantly warmer outside. Now when it's Winter, and actually cold you think the smaller intercooler was the straw that broke the camels back? Is there not a safety range that its "tuned" to? I would think that tuning it to those exact tolerances would cause more people to have the same problem.

My question is: do you think its the 2% pulley that caused this to happen or was is just bad luck?

 

ok let me say this cause maybe I have not been clear and people are trying to find a finger to point but don't seem to understand what is going on... cuase most people do not make it thier point to break the car ( maybe cause it's expensive) every which way possible to understand how where when why... along with studing the nessisary engineering and thermo dynamics bla hbla hblah oh yes isnt' this interesting...

what isn't understood is that yes it really is that easy to break the car... Right now if I go out and add 2 more lbs of boost to my 400 HP car... and do not adjust other things in accordance... I will garuntee it will break... it's jsut time... it is that simple...

be it heat, timing.. gas... or combination there of... it really is that simple... as I said before... you may get to 600 or 6000 but that 1 extra HP can cause a chain reaction of events... or just be enough for that rod to give way... or generate just enough heat.. ETC...

its not marios fault... its no ones fault... I understood why he should not add those parts and advised him not to... for this very reason...

so either I am psychic and could for see the future... OR maybe I accually have some idea of what is going on with these cars... and I really don't care if you like me or who I work with or what... I just love this stuff and that's why I tell people the stuff I do... so I can help... and give back... and maybe help people avoid going through he is... I do not descriminate on the parts used or the names there of... I advise according to that combination based on my knowledge... which may be limited and if I do not have the answer I will state that I do not know and would be happy to find out what I can... from other people who have more real world expirence....

I do not know everything... hell I have TONS to learn... what I do know I give back and what doesn't I also share... and if people don't wanna listen thats thier perogative... I only advise and suggest...

do I think it was the 2%... I think it was a combination of things... sitting at a light heat soaking and then taking off generated heat... a 2% generated even MORE heat... a smaller intercooler helped the heat reach places it shouldn't ... for a tune it didn't have with poor quality gas...etc... LOL

if you read through this thank you... I really love being able to share what I have learned first hand in my life working with cars... and about the minis specifically which I have spent the last 3 years of my life studing like it was life or death... thank you and i hope I have shared something worth while...

 

Do you think Atla's intercooler works better than an M7 DFIC? To me they seem close and the DFIC must not be that bad if Alta was willing to make their version 2.0 copy.

 

Mario, sorry to hear about this horrendous experience. I feel for you big time.

I agree with what you say above. I kept reading in this thread about a switch to a "smaller" IC, but there were no details. Going from an Alta V1 to the DFIC should do the opposite in that you should have improved cooling, namely lower IATs. I saw this when comparing my DFIC with the GRS, as well as the stock IC. This was done via data-logging, so actual driving, not on a dyno where intercooling is quite different than reality...

Couple this with the cooler weather these days I find it strange that the addition of a 2% would make this happen. It sounds as though your tune didn't have too much wiggle room, I don't know...

I wish you well in getting this sorted-out! As Tuls said, maybe it's a blessing in disguise in some sad way in that it paves the way for that turbo you've been longing for... A speedy recovery to you!

 

Tuls,
Thanks for placing your **** on the hot plate, this is an important subject. I,m trying to understand the dynamics, could you please tell me if I've got this right. Not trying to argue a point, need to know, same setup less tune.
2+17=high heat from the supercharger (although many cars use this combo)
Smaller (although efficient) IC = what? higher initial temps from heat soak? (although many cars use this combo)
High flowing head = key ingredient? Many cars use this combo but not all flow as high? Would tuning for this = lose performance (reason for mods)

 

Well said ...

 

Damn man that sucks. So do you have a time frame on when the car will be back up and running?

 

Well do the math on this 17% + 2%+ 7500rpm rev limiter = an inferno for an intake air temp.

seriously do the math and calculate how fast that blower was spinning and then think about how much heat it was generating... there in lies your answer