You would have to do an awful lot of business with the dealer for them to eat (or even eat half of) the cost of a replacement transmission.

 

I'm not doubting you at all, but is there no option for self-representation in these cases? I realize that your odds of winning decrease significantly that way, but considering that the dollar amount is dispute in a "denied warranty claim" case probably averages less than $5000, there's got to be a way to at least get some time in front of the judge without having to spend six figures.

Scott

 

You could try your hand at filing in small claims court. Generally, small claims court tends to favor small plaintiffs going up against corporate litigants. However, whomever shows to represent MINI/BMW will bring the paperwork that shows they provided the disclaimer of warranty coverage for cars that are modified or tracked. They will then ask if the car was tracked. The answer under penalty of perjury will be yes. At that point, you have an uphill battle to challenge the exclusion of warranty coverage for cars that are taken to the track. If you don't have a law that prevents excluding warranty coverage for cars that are tracked to cite, the judge is going to rule in MINI/BMW's favor.

I feel the pain; but I highly doubt that litigation (or even the threat of litigation) is going to be a remedy. Skiploder has already explored that avenue.

 

Yes your warranty could be nullified. Six months later, the radio stops working, it's up to the manufacturer if they will fix it or not.

That is what the agreement says!

Don't think lawyers didn't write the warranty, it will stand up if challanged.

Rust is covered under a different warranty. And yes the blanket exclusion is legal.

They are not denying warranty due to auto-crossing, they are denying the warranty due to over-revving (abuse or misuse of the product). So say the car was never tracked, and one day on the highway cruising in 6th gear @ 4k rpm, the owner put the car in second and over revved. Do you think that should be covered under the warranty?

You should never ever tell your dealer that you "race" your car, just like you should never tell your auto insurance that you wrecked while "racing".

For those of you that autoX, what is the procedure if someone wrecks their car on the course? (I know the answer )

Steve

 

Well, not always. An attorney can write something that is over-reaching. As long as it is not challenged, the over-reach will continue. I was involved in a lawsuit where attorneys had created an agreement that required all fee disputes to be submitted to binding arbitration before the AAA (American Arbitration Association). In California, there is a very extensive set of regulations in the Business and Professions code that spells out the process to follow in attorney-client fee disputes. The AAA fee arbitration clause completely by-passed the B&P regulations. To make a long story short, the B&P regulations were upheld in a published opinion by the California Court of Appeal.

 

We're not the ones who are denying her warranty service and nobody's judging the OP. People are offering their opinions on why they may be refusing to work on the tranny.

People can fly off on all the tangents they want and dissect the issue into microscopic fragments. The fact remains that the warranty states that participating in races or other timed events is cause for denial.

In other words, the overrev argument is moot.

 

That language scared the crap of me, and I decided to not enter my MCS into my employer's car show...

 

 

We need a will not track badge

 

Try https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=49580

MINIUSA denies warranty. MINI reps taking VIN numbers down.

You play, you break it, you knew it ahead of time, so I really dont see how anyone can complain

 

Sounds like bmovierat, did not know it ahead of time.

 

I find that very sad in general ... not specific to Bmovie ....

Nobody wants to read their manual anymore
Nobody even bothers to read their insurance policy

then ... in general (no reference to Bmovie here) ... ppl whine when they find they have no coverage or its "not fair"

Duh. Read the fine print

You pay your money and take your chances.

This isn't like its the first time such things have happened to people. I've read it in Porsche and Lotus forums. People take their car out, kiss the wall... end up in 10s of thousands of dollars of damage ... and wonder why they have to pay for playing:impatient

 

Kissing the wall, in my mind is a result of racing your car. Driving it correctly and even autoXisng it are barley related to the dealership saying it's an overrev state that caused the dropout.

I mean she autoXed it but the tranny shouldn't drop out of the car at 48k especially if the driver is around autoXers that will tell you, "hey, the way you are shifting is going to blow your tranny."

Again, I say this because the dealer did not expressly mention to her that the reason for the lack of warrenty coverage was the AutoXing. Sure that might be an underlying issue but until they say it... it's fair game imo.

 

I doubt that it would be an issue as you stated. However, if you walk into the dealer and tell them "my tranny blew while I was doing an autox and they check and see an over-rev, you bet they have a leg to stand on, in fact, they have two!

As for the blanket warranty, it does state it. I am not arguing the fact that it is pretty lame, because it is. What I am arguing is that this person put the car on the track and damamged it and then wants MINI to pickup the tab. PUURRRLLLEAAASSSEEE.

If you track your car and it is damaged, why should warranty or insurance cover it. In fact, what this should be is an insurance claim and if the owner didn't get a racing clause on her insurance then she learned an expensive lesson.

By the way, that "broad draconion" clause you talk about will stand up in court especially if the defendant walked in with video tape of the car in action. Yes, this has happened to one client when I worked for AIG. He wasn't happy and then had the gaul to sue AIG for video taping without his permission.

 

; I'll bet that claim (video w/o permission) died before it made it it to first base.

 

I don't know if the "bashing" statement is referred to me or is generalized to the post. I haven't bashed a dealer at all. In fact, I give my dealership nothing but praise. see this old thread of mine: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=40005 . That's just one of my fixes.
On another note...The local dealership sponsors quite a few SPEC Mini race cars here in AZ. They keep a couple of them in the showroom to demonstrate the potential of the Mini Cooper. They service them with no problems. Also, I've seen people "money shift" cars all the time. BMW's mostly. I know you can over-rev shifting down but staying in a gear and redlining it is a different story. That's what the rev-limiter is for. Shifting down is all mechanical. That's why floating/bending valves, losing compression and all the nasty-ness that is involved sucks. But, why snap all the gears in a tranny BEFORE the motor does harm to itself? I don't get it. I'm not debating the fact that the car was auto-x'd and the warranty should be voided. But, 99.9% of all the cars that are tracked get repaired under factory warranty. Even with dealer knowledge. Let's start talking about WHY the gears took a hike. I would like to learn more. Transaxle 101. Plus, let's give some good advice on some ways the car could get fixed! I just want to say that the dealerships I deal with (BMW/VW) have been awesome to me...They don't always say yes right away and I do have to hash some things out here and there. But, in all...all my issues have been resolved through warranty and taken care of. Take for instance....My '06 Touareg V8 has a short in the parking light circuit. It shorted out the 2 194 bulbs and heat-bloomed my headlights. These headlights cost more than 2 Mini transmissions together. I will see if they give me any crap about replacing them.

 

Just the fact that you take it out on race tracks and beat the bejesus outta the car would, for me, negate any warranty. Reason: No one knows how badly you drive the car and thus most of the cars problems would be your fault. If you accept the fact that cars built strickly for racing have problems like this then you put a car really built for the streets into an excessive wear enviroment and add into it a novice behind the wheel and that, sooner rather than later, equates to car go boom.

 

I hope we are not starting to debate how I drive my car and how it relates to warranty work! I am not "most" people. Everyday is like a World Challenge or Super Touring event for me. FWIW, I'm now out of warranty. Plus, I don't think the Mini was designed for the street. I think it was designed for the track with Johnny and Sally's needs in mind.

 

If I remember correctly the judge asked him why he was wasting the courts time. Pretty funny. I kinda miss working for that group.

 

First off, the comment was about the original poster, not you. She was blaming the dealer and MINI for her problems.

Secondly, this is not a known issue with MINI's so it is suspicious and the fact that it was openly admitted happening during an autox pretty much sums it up.

Lastly this isn't a "regular" warranty issue.

 

1- That's what I was thinking but was just making sure.

2- There's been over a dozen (just on NAM) trannys that have dropped their guts out in the past year or so. It doesn't have to be a "known issue" to happen or get fixed. Someone has to have a problem for it to be "known" . That's why I referenced my moonroof blowing out. I was the first Mini to do so. And it's still not an "issue".

3- I suppose.

 

Sorry, I just re-read my post and it was a bit curt. Yes, the comment was not about you. There are three major problems that the original poster has.

• She didn’t read her warranty (racing voids it) and by admitting that she did it now puts the burden in her court.
• She didn’t read her insurance policy. What would have happened if she had an accident or even worse hurt someone else? I know for a fact that the insurance company would have refused to pay if they found out it was an autox. Trust me on this one…. She should have made sure that her insurance covered autox. If it did, then her insurance could pay for the blown transmission. I gurantee that if you call and ask your insurance company if they will cover an event like this the answer will be a resounding no. However, they will sell you temp coverage for it at a reasonable price.
• She refuses to take ownership in the issue. I have Nurburing about 5 hours from my house, but I don’t do it because I don’t have the proper gear or insurance for it. If I do decide to give it a try and drop the tranny on the track, it will be on me and my insurance, not MINI. She needs to own up on this one. She made a mistake, it happens.

As for the rest, I leave that for you all to futher discuss. I hope that she gets her car repaired soon and good luck with any claims.

 

That will only work if you are going after the dealership and you could not make your claim pursuant to the MM Act. You might be able to make a claim for damages (loss of coverage under the warranty or property damage) due to negligence on the part of the dealership. Anything more than that and you run into jurisdiction issues. If it's a warranty issue you need to go after BMW NA and it will be in the jurisdiction of a US District Court. Then the next problem would be determining which district.

 

Not necessarily. Even though the warranty agreements are written and vetted by lawyers, there is some room for interpretation, because if they spell out every possibility, then the customer's copy wouldn't fit in the glove box!

A court may well decide that MINI is over-reaching by voiding the *entire* warranty based on competitive use. Take the examples I gave earlier - a broken radio or boot paint stain from the rear washer fluid leaking. A judge could easily rule that malfunctions that are obviously unrelated to the competitive use must still be repaired under warranty.

Likewise, what exactly are "competitive events"? Things like poker runs and ralleys are "competitions", but the driving you do during these events is indistinguishable from normal street driving. Hell, a "show-and-shine" can be a "competitive event". So can a car audio sound-off, but no one would deny a transmission claim if it happened at a sound-off while pulling into the judging lanes.

The reason I think MINI may be over-reaching is that warranties have to provide a certain amount of coverage, per state and national laws, and manufacturers cannot void them arbitrarily or capriciously. If they could, MINI could add a clause that says "if you've ever hit the rev limiter, even once, then you've 'abused' your car and the warranty is void". Believe me, they'd love such a clause, because it would give them an 'out' in a lot of warranty claims, but they know it would never fly.

And my personal favourite among over-reaching clauses-- You know those signs in stores saying "we reserve the right to inspect bags, backpacks, and briefcases"? Guess what -- they really can't. If you refuse, they can ask you to leave, but that's the limit of their authority. They can't take your bag from you and rummage through it, no matter what their sign says.

Likewise, if I'm in one of those stores that wants to check my receipt against my purchases as I leave the store, I just keep on walking without stopping. As soon as I paid for those items, they became my personal property, and they have no more right to inspect them than they do asking me to empty my pockets or take off my clothes. When they ask to see my receipt, I just smile and say "no thanks" as I walk by. The look they get on their faces is priceless. But that's as far as it goes, because the stores know they would get their butts sued off if they ever tried to detain a customer for refusing, in the absence of any evidence of theft.

Remember, just because a clause is in a contract doesn't always mean it's enforceable, even if lawyers wrote it.

Scott

 

I was going to keep my distance from this thread until I heard something new. However, this is so over the top that I can’t allow this to stand unchallenged. If posting an experience with a dealership’s service department is considered “bashing” so be it. But, I thought this is precisely the reason why this forum exists. People can read my experience, pass it off as a fluke or sour grapes, or they can use it and make their decisions accordingly.

If my post convinces mini owners to avoid autoxing their cars, fine. If my post convinces people in Western Pa to avoid buying a MINI from MINI of Pittsburgh, fine. If my post convinces people to avoid MINIs in general, fine. I want to tell the truth, tell about my experience and let everything else fall where it may. People have to make their own decisions. But, if I am thinking about spending $25K on a new car, I want to have as much information as possible. Under this Web site’s old system, NAM used to have dealer reviews, which I found highly useful 2 1/2 years ago when I was in the market for a MINI. Since that no longer exists, I still think it’s beneficial to discuss one’s experiences with dealerships.

I hope this information can help better the community and I don’t think it’s constructive to be anything but honest about my experience. I’m not going to sugarcoat anything just for the sake of this dealer’s reputation. And, I’m not going to sugarcoat anything about what happened just for the sake of making me look better.

I could have just posted that the tranny exploded while on the road, not while autoxing. I would probably get a lot fewer people bashing me that way, but I’m a big girl; I can take it.

The dealer serviced this vehicle 4 months before this occurred. They misdiagnosed the symptoms of too much drivetrain play when accelerating/decelerating by claiming it was a worn clutch. The dealer could have investigated further, but they refused. They could have replaced this differential or the differential pin and avoid having to have the entire tranny replaced, but they did not.

Perhaps they will claim autoxing caused this part to wear prematurely. I don’t think so. I think the part was either defective or underengineered. If so, then perhaps experiences from future owners will prove this to be a known issue with 05 minis. It might be too late for me, but I hope it can be of some benefit to other people.

Perhaps MINI will use the “competitive driving” clause as reason for voiding the warranty. If it comes to that, I will suck it up, have the car towed to my house and my husband and I will replace the tranny. He is fully capable of doing that since he did a much harder auto tranny replacement and more recently, a complete drivetrain swap in a mid-engine car. Regardless, I think fellow autoxers and MINI owners would benefit from learning of my experience.

Oh, and I do appreciate everyone’s comments, even the negative ones. I like people to be candid, because I really want to know where I stand with this.