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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 08:44 AM
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Big electrical problems

Ok. I've got a 02 MCS and a while back I started having issues with my gauges not turning on or working. So I started chasing wires. I figured out the if I jumper wired the brown wire with white dots and a black line that goes to the fuel pump. To a ground plate on the side wall they would turn on. So I figured there was a short there. Going somewhere into the 42-pin connector by the fuze box. But before that. I had replaced the original fuel pump and only a few months later not driving it at all the one I put in there stopped working. So I put a new one in there again and it worked fine. But the gauges still needed the jumper wired. So I decided to splice in a "newer" 42-pin connector and I butt-connectored it in. There where 3 wires that I left off that where not my harness. And one wire that was smaller than the new one. But I got them all connected on Saturday and I still need the jumper wire. Plus I don't here my fuel pump come on. And on the worse part. I've got almost all of the interior gutted. But I tried to start the car. And nothing happens. No cranking. No clicking. No lights dimming or turning off. It just doesn't do anything. I was thinking it may be the starter. Cause before this when I had replaced the clutch. It would make a little grind when I started the car. I was curious it could be the starter. But now I don't hear anything even click. I don't know if it has anything to do with it. But I will add that I had replaced the alternator also. And it would give charging volts when it was started. But it would slowly drop. I apologise if any of my grammar is bad. Any help or insight is wildly appreciated!
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 10:09 AM
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Dude that sucks.

if you get nothing at all with the starter it could be a ground issue.

do you have a Bentley manual? All the wiring diagrams are in it as well as the ground locations. Might help.

do you have volts on the positive side of the starter?
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ssoliman
Dude that sucks.

if you get nothing at all with the starter it could be a ground issue.

do you have a Bentley manual? All the wiring diagrams are in it as well as the ground locations. Might help.

do you have volts on the positive side of the starter?
I've got the big service manual so I'll take a look at it. And I'll take a look at the starter connection volts when I'm home from school. Would I test the volts with the car on or off? And what would the volts be?
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 04:34 PM
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You might need an assistant. When you turn the ignition you should see the volts on the positive side spike. Power making it from the battery to the starter. Be sure to get a good ground for the meter. Not sure of the exact voltage you should see.

maybe someone here on the forum knows.

also test the battery and be sure it is grounded
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 05:16 PM
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All right. Update. I decided to try and jump start it with my truck to see if anything would happen. And I got her to crank! So I can rule out the rest of these possibilities. But an odd occurrence. The fuel pump clicks on and clicks off. But the pump itself doesn't turn on and the car won't start. So I was thinking I may have possibly shorted it out with my jumper wire? Because I've gone through two replacement pumps now. And now I need a third. Any help on this? Or maybe the wires not putting enough power to turn the pump on? I'm not sure.
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 05:41 PM
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good to hear! what is the volt reading on the battery? Is it new?

4 pumps, crap. can you hear the pump prime when you turn the key to 2nd position, just before start position?

with the pump I hear that they should not run without gas, can burn. does the tank have enough gas in it? Also does the electrical plug only plug in one way? or could it be reversed?
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ssoliman
good to hear! what is the volt reading on the battery? Is it new?

4 pumps, crap. can you hear the pump prime when you turn the key to 2nd position, just before start position?

with the pump I hear that they should not run without gas, can burn. does the tank have enough gas in it? Also does the electrical plug only plug in one way? or could it be reversed?
The The battery is not new. I can't remember when I got it. But it was when I first started working on the car to get it up and going again. And I took the battery to O'Reilly's a little while back for them to test it. And they said they had to charge it and it will work fine. But will most likely need to be replaced here sooner rather than later. I don't hear the pump itself turn on. But I hear the two clicks for the fuel pump relay it opening and closing the circuit for it to turn on. I both hear it and feel it on the pump itself. And I believe there should be about four or five gallons of gas in the tank.
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 06:47 PM
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Ok. I've got a 02 MCS and a while back I started having issues with my gauges not turning on or working. So I started chasing wires.
It's kind of hard to follow the original problem statement of this thread, gauges quit, fuel pump crapped out, started chasing down gremlins, splicing connectors, new 42-pin etc something something...car sat for a while then more fuel pump problems, starter was a non-starter, at some point swapped in a new alternator then:

interior gutted
Is there any way you can kind of...un-do all of this? Like just carefully put everything back to stock and start over? Get a new battery, leave in the new alternator but carefully reverse everything else you've just tried?

The The battery is not new. I can't remember when I got it. But it was when I first started working on the car to get it up and going again. And I took the battery to O'Reilly's a little while back for them to test it. And they said they had to charge it and it will work fine. But will most likely need to be replaced here sooner rather than later.
I had O'Reilly's tell me the same thing - and it did work, for a while. Then less than a year later they were replacing the same battery under warranty because it had failed. AGM, by the way. Strangely enough, the similar problem to yours that I had with an intermittent tachometer failure cleared right up. Whooda thunk a low / dying battery could cause electrical gremlins on a BMW product...

In case it helps, here is the BMW Newtis link for online chassis service manual and wiring diagrams, sometimes it's easier to page through it on screen than leafing through Uncle Bentley.

Good luck and keep us posted!




 

Last edited by user 7389739; Feb 3, 2020 at 07:09 PM.
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RedSky455
It's kind of hard to follow the original problem statement of this thread, gauges quit, fuel pump crapped out, started chasing down gremlins, splicing connectors, new 42-pin etc something something...car sat for a while then more fuel pump problems, starter was a non-starter, at some point swapped in a new alternator then:



Is there any way you can kind of...un-do all of this? Like just carefully put everything back to stock and start over? Get a new battery, leave in the new alternator but carefully reverse everything else you've just tried?

Here's what's making my stomach and head ache reading through this: the reality is these cars hate hate HATE low battery voltage, which quite often begins with a dead or dying battery and/or alternator that won't keep it charged. Just as bad, they also hate sitting for a long while - even as low as two or three weeks - without being started up and driven or at least put on a battery tender. There are parasitic current draws just sitting there, so a battery can't last indefinitely if the car isn't started and driven from time to time. Welcome to the wonderful world of BMW electronics.

With this in mind, you may not have had a short, an open, or anything like that. I once had a similar issue - intermittently the tach and its lights and digital display would die, then come back to life then die again. Turned out it wasn't a gremlin, short, moisture or pinched wire. It was a s**t battery from my local brick and mortar parts place. These days we're lucky to get a couple years from a battery. Most aren't warrantied longer than 36 months.

Whatever is the problem, we're pulling for you to find it and get back on the road soon. Anything we can do to try and help we will.

In case it helps, here is the BMW Newtis link for online chassis service manual and wiring diagrams, sometimes it's easier to go through it on screen than leafing through Uncle Bentley.

Good luck and keep us posted!
The The diagram is extremely appreciated! And I'll for sure keep you all posted. I'll probably just give in and buy a new battery here soon. But I do know that I had one or two electrical gremlins at least. Because originally it was my cousin's first car. And he drove the hell out of it all the time. And drove her hard. Then one day she quit going into gear so he set her up in the garage and didn't really mess with her. And there she sat for a number of years. I'm talking like seven eight years. but she was started intermittently every three months or so and the battery was always left disconnected. But sadly, boy did the rats like the mini. the wiring was a good bit chewed up and they decided to make a nice little nest under the driver seat and the back seat. But I figured I'd track down most of those wiring issues. And I have to the ybest of my ability. But I guess my first course of action from here will be to buy a new battery and possibly fuel pump ( again ). Do You guys have anywhere y' all would recommend getting a battery? And a fuel pump? I've done quite a lot to the old girl, and a bunch of my parts have come from rockauto.com. And they've all been really good parts that are rather inexpensive.
​​​​
 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 07:46 PM
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But sadly, boy did the rats like the mini. the wiring was a good bit chewed up and they decided to make a nice little nest under the driver seat and the back seat. But I figured I'd track down most of those wiring issues.
Okay, that's a pretty significant detail. Hence why the car interior is torn apart; get it now. At this point we don't know what's operating and what isn't due to old age, sitting, corrosion, the rats etc. Cleaning out the infestation and seeing where they have been and what they've chewed makes sense as a first step (after you get the rats excluded from that garage if possible).

Hopefully you can find it all and sort it out which will take time. If it's really bad, maybe source a whole loom from a junk yard car, assuming you can find one that hasn't likewise been eaten up by rats. That might prove even more challenging.

As for a battery, I'm obviously not an expert and others will weigh in, but I've "seen some Bimmer guys on YouTube" (Nathan's BMW Shop for example) who've sworn by Walmart. Just simple, ordinary flooded lead acid (not AGM) battery. No battery is cheap anymore, like they used to be, unfortunately. My last one was free under warranty, so I didn't research it much further. Probably should.

 
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Old Feb 3, 2020 | 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RedSky455
Okay, that's a pretty significant detail. Hence why the car interior is torn apart; get it now. At this point we don't know what's operating and what isn't due to old age, sitting, corrosion, the rats etc. Cleaning out the infestation and seeing where they have been and what they've chewed makes sense as a first step (after you get the rats excluded from that garage if possible).

Hopefully you can find it all and sort it out which will take time. If it's really bad, maybe source a whole loom from a junk yard car, assuming you can find one that hasn't likewise been eaten up by rats. That might prove even more challenging.

As for a battery, I'm obviously not an expert and others will weigh in, but I've "seen some Bimmer guys on YouTube" (Nathan's BMW Shop for example) who've sworn by Walmart. Just simple, ordinary flooded lead acid (not AGM) battery. No battery is cheap anymore, like they used to be, unfortunately. My last one was free under warranty, so I didn't research it much further. Probably should.
Ill for sure look into all my possibilities and will keep you guys updated. I'm getting a new title sent in within a few days and I've bought a good bit of parts that I was hoping would get her up and running again before I figure it out all of this mess. I've got new brakes and brake rotors to put in that are drilled and slotted for better performance. Some supercharger oil plus a water pump. A new fuel level sending unit since the fuel level reads empty all the time. ( Which is a whole different thing. ) And some new headliner to go in. so hopefully once I've got all this figured out and she's at least drivable I'll be up and going!
 
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Old Feb 8, 2020 | 10:51 AM
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All right guys. Here's my update. I just got done doing a little work on it. Still got to get a new battery. And a new fuel pump is on the way. I just dropped in new spark plugs that are the NGK 4-prong performance plugs. And I did a little recon work on the connection for the fuel pump. The brown wire with black tracer and white dots. Turns into two of that wire going to the fuel pump connection. I think they're both supposed to be grounds? But I'm not sure. If I don't have the jumper wire connected to the ground plate the gauges don't turn on but with a test light on the connection for the fuel pump and the jumper wire disconnected I have a very faint light on the test light and whenever I turn on the car the gauges light up. if the test light is connected to a ground and it lights up a little bit in the test light. On both connections. So I'm not really sure what's going on there. I've got a new fuel pump on the way and hopefully I can figure out how this goes before it gets here. But on a lighter and better note. I just got the title mailed in yesterday! So I'll be going up to the DMV Monday or Tuesday and getting her registered and tagged! So hopefully soon I'll be driving her if I get all these bugs worked out haha.
 
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