N16 - Noisy friction pulley (video): fix without lowering engine?
N16 - Noisy friction pulley (video): fix without lowering engine?
My 2010 Cooper with N16 engine has a noisy friction pulley. So much so that I initially thought it is the timing chain:
Note: it is a german spec car which pulls/pushes the friction pulley in order to activate/deactivate the waterpump whenever needed (as seen at 0:23, 0:31 respectively).
The belt needs to be renewed as well, even though it is only two years old. And in order to be on the safe side, the waterpump pulley will probably also go (looks fine but I don't want to risk it).
Has anyone managed to change the friction pulley and/or the waterpump pulley without lowering the engine block? If so: what tools did you use? Any advice on how to proceed?
Note: it is a german spec car which pulls/pushes the friction pulley in order to activate/deactivate the waterpump whenever needed (as seen at 0:23, 0:31 respectively).
The belt needs to be renewed as well, even though it is only two years old. And in order to be on the safe side, the waterpump pulley will probably also go (looks fine but I don't want to risk it).
Has anyone managed to change the friction pulley and/or the waterpump pulley without lowering the engine block? If so: what tools did you use? Any advice on how to proceed?
Update:
I was unable to reach the top two (out of three) screws of the friction wheel assembly without jacking up the engine and removing the engine support bracket and engine mount. Even so, a very short socket (WERA 8790 FA 10mm, which is the socket mentioned in newtis) and matching ring spanner (11mm) were needed to avoid lifting and lowering the engine by a substantial amount. Removing the water pump pulley was much easier though threading it out and into its position was quite a task (the same applies to the friction wheel assembly, too).
I was unable to reach the top two (out of three) screws of the friction wheel assembly without jacking up the engine and removing the engine support bracket and engine mount. Even so, a very short socket (WERA 8790 FA 10mm, which is the socket mentioned in newtis) and matching ring spanner (11mm) were needed to avoid lifting and lowering the engine by a substantial amount. Removing the water pump pulley was much easier though threading it out and into its position was quite a task (the same applies to the friction wheel assembly, too).
Update 2:
The friction wheel was not the culprit after all. Nothing changed after I replaced it, the serpentine belt and the waterpump pulley. Instead, a small amount of rubber from the previous belt had melted and settled within the tracks of the crank pulley. On each rotation of the crank pulley the residue slightly pushed up the friction wheel. This caused it to either vibrate (when idling) or to pass on the recurrent knock to the waterpump pulley (causing the knocking sound in the original video when the waterpump is driven).
The new serpentine belt (by Continental) also made the friction pulley vibrate a little and the waterpump to knock (albeit to a lesser extent than the rubber deposit on the crank pulley):
The surface area around the branding on the outside of the belt is a fraction of a milimeter lower than the remaining surface area of the belt. The transition from one area to the other is abrupt enough to also make the friction wheel vibrate or the waterpump to knock.
The original, old serpentine belt had no such issues (being smooth all over).
I uploaded videos of the engine running with the new crank pulley.
1. With the new serpentine belt (vibrations and knocking noise due to the belt)
2. With the original, old serpentine belt (without vibrations or knocking)
The original video (linked in the opening post) is with the old crank pulley (with rubber residue) and the old, smooth belt.
The friction wheel was not the culprit after all. Nothing changed after I replaced it, the serpentine belt and the waterpump pulley. Instead, a small amount of rubber from the previous belt had melted and settled within the tracks of the crank pulley. On each rotation of the crank pulley the residue slightly pushed up the friction wheel. This caused it to either vibrate (when idling) or to pass on the recurrent knock to the waterpump pulley (causing the knocking sound in the original video when the waterpump is driven).
The new serpentine belt (by Continental) also made the friction pulley vibrate a little and the waterpump to knock (albeit to a lesser extent than the rubber deposit on the crank pulley):
The surface area around the branding on the outside of the belt is a fraction of a milimeter lower than the remaining surface area of the belt. The transition from one area to the other is abrupt enough to also make the friction wheel vibrate or the waterpump to knock.
The original, old serpentine belt had no such issues (being smooth all over).
I uploaded videos of the engine running with the new crank pulley.
1. With the new serpentine belt (vibrations and knocking noise due to the belt)
2. With the original, old serpentine belt (without vibrations or knocking)
The original video (linked in the opening post) is with the old crank pulley (with rubber residue) and the old, smooth belt.
Update:
I was unable to reach the top two (out of three) screws of the friction wheel assembly without jacking up the engine and removing the engine support bracket and engine mount. Even so, a very short socket (WERA 8790 FA 10mm, which is the socket mentioned in newtis) and matching ring spanner (11mm) were needed to avoid lifting and lowering the engine by a substantial amount. Removing the water pump pulley was much easier though threading it out and into its position was quite a task (the same applies to the friction wheel assembly, too).
I was unable to reach the top two (out of three) screws of the friction wheel assembly without jacking up the engine and removing the engine support bracket and engine mount. Even so, a very short socket (WERA 8790 FA 10mm, which is the socket mentioned in newtis) and matching ring spanner (11mm) were needed to avoid lifting and lowering the engine by a substantial amount. Removing the water pump pulley was much easier though threading it out and into its position was quite a task (the same applies to the friction wheel assembly, too).
I did the job completely without lifting or lowering the engine. Removed the driver side tire, and worked in from there, dont get me wrong you scrap a few knuckles, but skin is disposable... and curse words are free at my house! Job without removing brackets, headlights or others took about 50minutes, Strongly suggest a swivel head 10mm wrench.
This a by feel job, look at it, then feel around remove the bolts. and pull the pulley out towards the back of the engine, will take a bit of fiddling but it should come out. To put it back in, mine didn't go in the way the other came out, its all about angle and a bit of cursing and scrapped knuckles.
This a by feel job, look at it, then feel around remove the bolts. and pull the pulley out towards the back of the engine, will take a bit of fiddling but it should come out. To put it back in, mine didn't go in the way the other came out, its all about angle and a bit of cursing and scrapped knuckles.
I just used a standard wrench. small movements, making it the first one to loosen, this made it easy once loss to spin out with fingers.... putting it in, have a magnet with a rotatable head, slide in, and then remove magnet, hand tighten, then wrench it!
Believe me its not fun, you could easily lower the motor, (but make sure to get new torque to yeild bolts. only takes 10mins to remove motor mounts).
like I said not fun, alot of scrapped knuckles, but a standard wrench got the job done for me.
Believe me its not fun, you could easily lower the motor, (but make sure to get new torque to yeild bolts. only takes 10mins to remove motor mounts).
like I said not fun, alot of scrapped knuckles, but a standard wrench got the job done for me.
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it wasn't fun, I had to adjust the tension pulley in and out to get to each one, cant remember which was the right way when I did it, but I did the job 100% without removing the engine mount.
I did the job completely without lifting or lowering the engine. Removed the driver side tire, and worked in from there, dont get me wrong you scrap a few knuckles, but skin is disposable... and curse words are free at my house! Job without removing brackets, headlights or others took about 50minutes, Strongly suggest a swivel head 10mm wrench.
This a by feel job, look at it, then feel around remove the bolts. and pull the pulley out towards the back of the engine, will take a bit of fiddling but it should come out. To put it back in, mine didn't go in the way the other came out, its all about angle and a bit of cursing and scrapped knuckles.
This a by feel job, look at it, then feel around remove the bolts. and pull the pulley out towards the back of the engine, will take a bit of fiddling but it should come out. To put it back in, mine didn't go in the way the other came out, its all about angle and a bit of cursing and scrapped knuckles.
Did you have to put the main belt tensioner in service position--which seems dangerous sticking your hand up there?
Can you link the magnet with rotating head?
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