2003 R53 6MT

The snow has arrived in the sunny Shuswap, so I've had my first drive out in real snow. Overall the car seems pretty OK in snow.

BUT..

If I hit the brakes hard enough to make the ABS come on, it won't stop ABSing until the car comes to a complete stop, even with my foot off the brake. Even if I hit the gas. It is quite unnerving. If I were to trigger the ABS on the highway, there would be SFA I could do until the car is 100% stopped. I'd prefer to not be eaten by a Peterbuilt.

The ABS system isn't reporting any faults, but the control module was replaced because it caught fire. There are some scorch marks on the harness, but all the wiring appeared to be intact when I inspected it (The fire and repair were from a previous owner). I did have to change the VIN on the ABS module and do the steering angle sensor calibration to clear the faults that existed once I discovered that all the warning lights had been melted out with a soldering iron.

My guess is maybe it's not getting the brake pedal input? The brake lights do work, but that doesn't mean the signal is getting to the ABS module.

I can't imagine this being normal operation....?

I can't imagine this being normal behaviour for this car..

 

I can see that you are on the leading edge of the English language evolution.

SFA is a mind bender for me and it took a bit of brain straining for me to figure out WTF is SFA

I always have the impression that BC is very mild and that is why all the Chinese new and old money all want to live there. WTF is the snow doing in BC?

I read and reread your post, and it leave me wonder what you would expect from a designed-in-late 1900 ABS system. These ABS is a very simple feedback system that involves wheel spin sensors and dumb and elementary low performance microcontroller codes. In a good day, it might save you from being mangled by a Peterbilt. I doubt it can save you from a Peter-built.

I can tell you in my observation, Peterbilt drivers tend to be the hillbilly type compare to those that drive a Kenworth, Volvo. or Freightliner. But this is my prejudice profiling at work because of I am the victim of my experience . Most Peterbilt hauls junk cars, agriculture commodity, dirts and very seldom high value payloads.

At the end of the day, the best and most sophisticated cannot defy the laws of physics. It will however do a very good job of anti-locking.

 

Rest assured that BC does extend beyond the City of Vancouver and greater area, and we get lots of snow here in the Shuswap. At my elevation we expect total snowfall to be around 6' for the season. We got about 3" last night. I'm sorry to hear you don't approve of use of "ABS" as a verb, but it seemed to best describe what was happening in the simplest terms.

At a minimum, I would expect the car to stop trying to brake once I lifted my foot from the brake pedal. In my car, it does not stop braking until the car no longer has any forward motion REGARDLESS of the fact that my foot isn't even touching the brake pedal any more. That is to say that the ABS module is running the pump and actuating valves to bring the car to a full stop, with all the associated noises and vehicle lurching motion, without the brake pedal being depressed, but only after you have pressed the brake pedal hard enough to initiate ABS braking.

In every other vehicle I have driven (ABS equipped or not), the brakes only try to operate when your foot is actually depressing the brake pedal.

How about story time?

I am driving along the Trans-Canada highway on my way to work at 5:45am. It is as dark as the inside of a cow, and the snow streaks past my windscreen as if I were piloting the Millennium Falcon at light speed. (In reality I'm really only going about 50mph). The road conditions are compact with drifting fresh snow, and it's a brisk 30F outside. The highway maintenance crew has deposited a copious quantity of gravel and salt to the road surface to ensure Canadian cars die as quickly as possible.

Suddenly a wild Narwhal appears appears on the road, even though it's only supposed to bacon at midnight!

I press the brake pedal hard to avoid certain carnage and doom. The brake pedal drops from under my foot as the ABS module kicks in, whirring, clicking and clunking as the nose of the car begins to dip and yaw under the braking forces.

Then, as suddenly as it appeared, the Narwhal vanishes with a "WOOSH"!

My ultimate demise apparently thwarted, I lift my foot from the brake pedal to continue on my merry way to work where the fresh coffee awaits my beloved cup..

but NO!

The R53 of my dreams has now become the MINI death trap of my doom! The new, deeply treaded winter tread tires find purchase on the asphalt below the white layer of horror and the grinds the car to a sudden stop from the ABS whirring, clicking and clunking - only to be obliterated by a new Prevost H3-45 VIP bus shell ironically headed to my place of business for modifications.

Fin.

 

 

Haha. I guess I gotcha.

SFA = Sweet Fck All

As for the Narwahl, it's a bit of internet ancient history. I suggest you Google "what time does the Narwahl bacon". You'll find the answer is Midnight. Ancient Reddit history.

Anyway, this business with the ABS is pretty freaky...

 

I nominate Dannorth from the great White North has the most entertaining post of the month . Good writing and your transgression of what isn't verb is pardoned.

So you bought a badly molested Mini from a cheating scum. Defeating ABS warning light to conceal a safety equipment failure ought to be a prosecutable crime. BTW, the ABS system should only modulate the hydraulic valves and does not apply hydraulic pressure to the brake pistons when you take your foot off the brake, despite the controller is confused.

On most cars with ABS, there are two brake switches. Typically the one for the brake lights are just mechanical, while the one for ABS is hydraulically actuated. I don't know off hand the arrangement on the Mini. May the the ABS brake-on switch is malfunction intermittently.

 

Per 06 wiring diagram that I scanned through. It seems ABS module gets the foot-on-brake pedal signal from the DME (ECU). The brake pedal switch has 4 terminals and two connect to the DME. Seems the brake lights are activated by the body control module which also get the signal from DME, via the internal communication buses. I didn't spent a whole lot of time to study the relevant scattered diagrams.

 

 

Our Canuck Miniac from the Great White North so vividly described his treacherous living on the edge, that is driving on the Trans Canada Highway at the ungodly hours in a blizzard. This reminds me of my own experience in driving in heavy virgin snow covered roads in a blizzards, or in heavy fog. In the absence of other vehicle ahead, and worst no tire tracks except those you leave behind you easily enter into the twilight zone. The drifting snow fall due to their lightness gives you the impression that you are traveling at warp speed and your mind soon enters into the 5th dimension. All too easy to mistaking the Narwhal as assassin sent to end your misery rather than there to save you from impending doom.

Yesterday, lured by the opportunity to save 25% on a hard to find automotive battery, I drove across state line for the bargain. The day was still young and the roads were shrouded in a veil of fog. I had the headlights on as well as the front fog lights and was doubly cautious as I negotiate the mid morning traffic. Soon I notice this unusually bright red light on a Mercedes. Oddly it is only on one side, and my first thought is it has a messed up taillights. I realized it is what you rarely see here in USA, an European rear fog light at work.

As it happen I have been very wary of this trashy pickup truck driving aggressively next to me and then behind me with a buckled driver side frame rail. I thought it would be cool to turn on my rear fog light too. I hesitated as I wondered what would happen if he misinterpret my bright rear fog light as a signal for his being aggressive. Most American drivers have no idea these are fog lights. I waited until we have a good separation before turning on the singular rear fog light.

Back to the alleged ABS problem. I did notice you have DSC. This make me wonder if the continuous pulsations are due to the DSC at work once you upset the car in the low grip snow covered pavement. Does this only happen in this driving condition. Does it occur in wet and slippery surfaces? I have no experience with DSC. I always turn off my ASC except the worst of driving situations like ice or snow. I infer you cannot fully turn off all the functions in DSC, but is worth a try. It seems that for DSC to work, the ABS/DSC control system have to be able to apply hydraulic pressure to selected brake corners rather than just bleed them in the case of pure ABS.

 

HIGH FIVE!

When the DSC is... um... well.. "DSCing"..., it flashes its little light in the tach. In my experience (and I admit to only having owned a MINI since August) all the DSC does is cut power. It's annoying, but on normal dry roads pretty much never does anything unless I drive SUPER aggressive and actually TRY to spin the tires. (As an aside, when I got the car initially DSC and the ABS didn't work at all because the FR wheel speed sensor had been "repaired" by a blind man with only a machete and a roll of tape for tools. Since then, all 4 wheel speed sensors are confirmed working, and even the tire monitor system works!) When I am having the ABS issue, the DSC light is not flashing, and the problem persists with the DSC disabled.

 

I wonder if the BMW engineers ever thought of how the DSC/ASC/ABS would cope with pavement covered with this:


The factory is DreiMeister which probably is the equivalent of Three Stooges.

 

What the actual F?

I can't decide if that is better or worse than shoveling snow...

 

Dannorth
Have you tried pulling the ABS fuse to see if the problem changes?
This should only de-activate the ABS, restoring you to conventional braking. I'd test it in a big, empty, snowy parking lot!
My suspicion is that you have a switch stuck that sends a signal to the DME to keep the ABS on.

 

No, I haven't tried pulling the ABS fuse yet and for now the roads aren't snowy. That test will have to wait for now.

I'm not sure what kind of switch would tell the DME to keep the ABS on.

 

You don't need snow to activate ABS. Wet roads or just really hard panic braking will get it going. I don't even have to hit the brakes all that crazily to trigger it on my F56. Even after all these years it still feels weird when they kick in.

It surely did save me from disaster more than once, especially on ice.

 

I know I CAN activate the ABS, but I don't want to subject my brand new snow tires to the abuse. Rest assured there will be more snow shortly to play.. er.. "test" in soon.

 

Well, start with the brake light switch, but there may be others like the wheel speed sensors.
I just think it would be safer knowing what kind of braking you'll get with the ABS off altogether. I've done this on a Ford with a broken speed sensor - Ford calls it a tone ring - it's the notched ring around the hub.