Hi All,

It's been awhile since I posted to the forum. Unfortunately, it seems that my post have mutated from smiles per mile to frowns per $.

We have a 2011 MINI Clubman S with a slipping clutch. For those that don't know, you will notice the clutch slipping initially in 6th gear, on the highway under load. It will feel like an automatic, as the rpm's are moving around as if the transmission was hunting for a gear. Our Mini has 66k miles. For the record, my wife and I are 50+ (burn outs in the parking lot and track days are 25 years behind us) and the car is used as a daily driver. We have owned 10 manual transmission cars/trucks. Most exceeding 100,000 miles before we sell them. I've never had to replace a clutch in any of the cars I've owned. So what I'm saying here is, I'm not seeking driving advice...

What I'm seeking is "what to do" with the car. I went to the local BMW dealer (live on the big island of Hawaii and they are the only authorized service provider) and got a quote of $5K to repair the slipping clutch. After several friendly conversations, I was able to negotiate the price down to $3,800. The negotiation yielded service department selling the parts at list price and labor would be charged at $165 per hour for the 12 hours of labor to repair the car. I also visited a highly recommended mechanic hoping to discuss the problem and get a quote. I was charged $110 for them to tell me the clutch is slipping, which I told them up front that the clutch was slipping. I don't have a quote yet from that garage. Grr...

The main issue with the clutch job is the extent of the labor (12 hours) and the cost of the clutch and dual mass fly wheel (you can't resurface a dual mass fly wheel).

In addition, my wife does not want the car anymore. She's done... For the record, I've replaced the high pressure fuel pump, thermostat, brakes and other basic maintenance items since the free maintenance program expired in my garage to save on the cost of labor. The trade in value of the car is approximately $5-6k minus the repair cost of the car (so pretty much no value).

1. Should I attempt to replace the clutch myself? I reviewed several write ups and it looks like a pain in the ...

2. Sell it at a loss to someone wiling to put the money into the car?

3. Bite the bullet and get it repaired at the dealer and then sell the car or trade it in at a more convenient time in the next few months?

The parts cost for the clutch repair is expensive. I guess one needs to look this up prior to buying a new car... Clutch Kit = $469 list, Twin Mass Flywheel= $1117 list.

I can buy the OEM Mini parts or same parts from Valeo and Sachs which I believe is the original supplier to MINI from AutohausAZ for $285.70 and $637.50 respectfully. Mini Kennesaw sells the Mini branded clutch and Twin Mass Flywheel for $318.36 and $858.85 respectfully. Pelican Parts has the Valeo clutch and the Sachs twin mass flywheel for $391 and $640 respectfully. Pelican also has a write up on how to replace the clutch with makes me lean towards purchasing from them.

Would you buy the MINI OEM parts or the Valeo and Sachs parts?

Has anyone purchase parts from Pelican, AutohausAZ or Mini Kennesaw and have a comment of their procurement?

Most importantly, I'm looking for advise from my Mini community that has crossed the same bridge with their car. What did you do... I'm guessing this is a self selecting question, if you repaired and kept the car, you are still in. Those that moved on, moved on...

If a BMW/MINI Corporate person is reading this forum, I would think hard about how you structure your parts prices and treat your customers. I feel for the young women/man with a six year old car facing a $5k repair job on a car that is worth no more than the quoted repair. I'm all for private sector companies making a profit, but it should NOT cost more than a persons monthly salary to replace a clutch. It is not a good way to build brand loyalty.

I apologize for the long post, but I needed to vent... That said, I count my blessing I'm not facing the issues my fellow American's are facing in Texas.

Aloha,

 

if your wife is over this car, it'd be smart for you to get rid of it. I'd first try to sell it locally on your own and see what offers you get. If no luck, then trade it in. There's no way I'd pay the dealer $5K for that.
My Clubby is an automatic so I have no experience other than what I've heard. My friend is a MINI technician in KC. He's mentioned the clutch on several occasions to me referring to their short lived nature.

 

I am facing the same issue, sort of, on my ~140,000 mile, 2005 Cooper S. At the end, thank goodness not the start, of a long road trip recently, my clutch started making grinding, ringing, something is seriously wrong noises. My diagnosis, no professional advice involved, is that the throw out bearing is done. I bought the car with ~70,000 miles and never done any work on the clutch or tranny but those things don't last forever and to diagnose this will require ripping it apart anyway, so I will replace it. That being said, it would be foolish not to replace the clutch and other related parts(trans mount, slave cylinder, bushings etc) if I am going to go that far. As you say, it looks like a serious pain in the a** and that is not to say that I have not done work on this car before. When my LCA bushings went, I personally replaced the shocks, struts, rear sway bar, LCA bushings, motor mounts, upper and lower ball joints, plugs, coil pack and others. (the car was already apart...) The main thing I learned through all that is that it is not really all that complicated to do the work, it is just a matter of time and a lot of wrenching bolts in and out. Anywhoo, back to the clutch, the engineers at BMW decided to fit the Mini with a dual mass flywheel so as you have found, due to the fact you have to replace the flywheel, every time, taking it to a shop is not cheap and the cheaper option of doing the work yourself is still a wallet punch, not to mention all your time. Suffice it to say, capitalism intervened and the aftermarket has come up with an single mass flywheel conversion, about $375, flywheel included, at ECS Tuning:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-valeo-pa.../52151203~val/
I do not know if it is offered elsewhere for cheaper.(Amazon,ebay, etc) Due diligence is advised to make sure that it will fit on your particular model and whether or not you want to go with this option. There are many reviews you can consult. Here's a couple:
https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-pu...-flywheel.aspx
https://www.torquecars.com/tuning/dm...d-flywheel.php
If you are indeed willing and able to do the work, this would be a far cheaper answer.
The fact that the wife is over the car, well, I can not help you with. I am just pointing out that there are options. (Replace it for a fraction of the cost an then sell?)
Pelican parts: I have done a lot of business with these guys and have never had any kind of a problem. Their customer service is great and their tech articles are an awesome resource. There are also tons of videos on youtube of people working on their Minis so there might be a complete walkthrough for the job you may or may not choose to do.
On a personal note, I fell your pain. I love my car. Literally every time I get behind the wheel it puts a smile on my face and I have fun driving, even if it is just commuting to work. Unfortunately, the flipside is that when something breaks down it is, as you have said, a serious pain in the @$$, if I choose to fix it myself or $$$ to get it done because of the way they are designed.
Keep motoring...or not....that is the question ;-P
Good luck brother!

 

reACTION and Minston, thanks for the advice! I believe your right reACTION, I should try to sell first since she does not have any more emotional investment into the car. However, I'm stuck on trying to fix it as I would think it would be more valuable as a usable automobile. Need to decide to do it myself, or outsource it to a mechanic. Some say it is not as difficult as it may appear, just time consuming for the first timer... My neighbor, who likes to wrench on things, is giving me moral support, but I'm afraid of unintended consequences during the repair that may be more expensive then the cost of labor. Minston, I will look into the solid flywheel option. I dismissed it at first, as it looked like an option for performance setups and seemed just as expensive as the twin mass flywheel OEM parts.

Aloha,

 

I am here if you ever have any parts or tech questions so please do not hesitate to reach out to me if you need anything!

 

ophale - I'm moving this to the problems forum - perhaps you'll pick up more input there.

I agree with the comments above....if there isn't sufficient emotional attachment to the car, then any repairs by you or a third party will be painful.

 

Does 6th gear always slip, or just when they car is hot? Does the clutch slip when driving at low speeds and moving the car in/out of the garage? Have you checked the clutch slave and/or bleed the brakes recently?

in my experience slipping at highway speed was related to an oil leak. You might ask
garage what the +\ difference is if they have to replace the rear main seal or address other oil leaks when the tranny is removed. The flywheel conversions do save money initially, but you might end up using those savings when the garage calls back with up charges. Not all of the flywheel kits are machined with TDC marks and wrenches will install them incorrectly. Make sure you find an enthusiast who has installed these before.
its sad that the parts prices are so ridiculous. The system seems rigged towards low cost leases and monthly payments- instead of long term enjoyable driving experiences.
12 hours seems the right range- it's just the labor rate at 165 is insane. Our dealer is $125 and the parts dept always offers 20% discount on all orders. In other words- they do what they can to keep their mini loving community together.
if there is a way to get emotionally reconnected to your car- that goes a long way towards a better experience.
Good luck!!!

 

Thanks Pelican Parts for offering with technical help. If I decide to move forward with the DIY option, I will most likely be buying the parts from you. I may also need to lean heavily on you when it comes time to remove the flywheel. I haven't been able to find instructions or a DIY video for the flywheel.

Aloha

 

Thanks for moving the thread, I need all the help I can get!

Mahalo!

 

Do you have a Bentley Manual? It should have directions for the Clubman (posted below). It's a good investment, along with our articles and this forum. You can use our R56 article for a basis (it will be different though), but the other sources I listed should be additional help as well. Also, if you comment at the bottom of our R56 article here: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti..._Replacing.htm with help needed while you're doing the job one of our MINI guru's (Nick) should have additional input for you.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/MINI/cat...minibk_pg3.htm

 

I initially noticed the clutch slipping as I was driving the saddle road on the Big Island. The road is ~50 miles long and climbs to 7,000 ft. elv. before dropping down to sea level on the other side of the island. The MINI was slipping randomly (higher rev's on the tach) as the load increased on the car going up the mountain. It felt like I was driving an automatic that was hunting for the right gear as my foot was on the throttle at steady state. I did NOT have my foot on the clutch and the Mini was NOT popping out of gear.

Since then, I noticed a steady degradation in the slipping at lower gears and the clutch is now catching at a higher point in the clutch pedal travel. I did do a slave cylinder bleed, as described on this forum with no improvement.

Thanks for reminding me of some other potential issues that may be found once the MINI's transmission has been pulled. This job sounds like a home remodel. You don't know what to expect until the walls start coming down. At that point you can get a good estimate on the repair costs... but you are committed to getting the job done.

I will probably stick with the dual mass flywheel as the replacement part as I've been able to find the less expensive part supplied by Sachs. The Sachs dual mass flywheel cost ~ $640 and is not much more expensive than the flywheel conversions.

My wife and I had the same discussion about cars last night regarding how the industry is geared towards low lease rates, or payments. I know I'm from another generation, but I like to buy a car in cash, unless the loan terms are close to 0%, and keep the vehicle for 7-10 years or more. I guess this formula does not work anymore... I believe cars have always gotten more complicated over time, but todays cars seem way too complicated, highly computerized, and very expensive to repair. Maybe I lived through the sweet spot of automotive engineering, from the late 80's to the early 2000's. I should count my blessings that all my previous cars were reliable, utilized ruggedized computer engine controls, but were relatively simple and cheap to repair for the occasional issue that popped up during my ownership.

It's my wife car, so she makes the final decision on what to do. She is definitely emotionally connected but in a very negative way. I like the Mini, and would put the money into it so I can ride it out for another year or two. She is done. As soon as it is fixed, she wants to sell. As they say, when emotions are high, logic is low. Perhaps her emotions will de-escalate over time and we can come back to a more logical exit strategy.

Hawaii, is expensive, but I'm disappointed in the local dealer. However, I don't think it would be any different if it was the Toyota dealer. I don't mind paying a premium for quality service, but I think the estimates I've received and the cost of parts which are 30% over list price is a little too much for me. I have the means to pay, but I feel for young person who needs a car to transport themselves to work and has to pay upwards of a monthly salary to get the car back on the road. 12 hours of labor and parts should not cost that much, that's just not right in my book.

Aloha,

 

As I mentioned in my opening post, I did seek a quote from a highly recommended private mechanic. It didn't start well, as he charged me $110 to diagnose something I already new. I finally got the quote to replace the clutch and flywheel today. Drum roll please..... $5,170... Wow, the BMW dealer was cheaper.

I guess I will be on a new adventure in the coming weeks. Anyone visiting Hawaii any time soon and would like to be arm chair clutch replacement guidance advisor? Would welcome the support!


Now some serious questions, what do I need besides the clutch kit, and dual mass flywheel? Are there bolts that need replacing. Should I address other issue... Last year I replaced the thermostat and the HPFP. Should I take care of the water pump? It's a 2011 MINI with 66K.

Aloha,

 

I just put a new clutch in my Clubman. I had bought it out of state and the seller claimed he put in a new clutch.
I had to pay 3000 for the job.
The repair facility that I used has a stellar reputation. They showed me my old parts but could not say what really went wrong. They figured that the OEM parts failed. I bought the car with 53,000 miles and now have 55,000.
The only interesting thing was that the disk was thinner on one side than the other. I will say one thing for sure. The clutch disk in my 1974 Honda Civic was more substantial and it had only 52 hp.
I am 64 and I have been driving manual transmissions the whole time and never had to replace a clutch on any street car.

 

I'm beginning to believe that the MINI's clutch is another early fail part... I remember a year and half ago when we were considering trading the car in when we had the High Pressure Fuel Pump fail, the sales person was keen on driving the MINI to specifically test the clutch. It was fine back then (~ 50K miles). Perhaps the was a little foreshadowing that I didn't pick up on.

Anyway, the parts for the clutch should arrive tomorrow. Still preparing to do the job myself with the help of a neighbor. I will post how thing go for others in the same predicament to evaluate if this is a "do it yourself" kind a job for a person that has changed some parts but never pulled a transmission. It has been stated that the job takes time but it is not inherently hard, with the exception of lining up the transmission.

With aloha,

 

Make sure to get new flywheel bolts and a new clutch slave while you're doing the job. With the transmission out its a great time to do some extra cleaning and change the gear oil. A high quality degreaser or aerosol brake clean will help ( wurth makes a good product) get thinks looking good. Some time spent on RealOEM.com will also help you identify other fasteners that are torque to yield or that you want to update with new. You can print the diagram and then make a chart with all the torque specs of the bolts- super helpful when you want to double check without having to search all through your manuals. Do that prep work now in advance! LOTS of pictures for yourself as you are taking things apart so that you keep things in chronological order -and then reverse your photo album to reinstall. Remember you are going to get tired and frustrated first time through this job. Organize yourself big time before jumping in. Proper jacks, jack stands and safety too - don't skimp on these areas. Sending you lots of good luck and patience. Jump in with support and confidence.

 

Thank you R56devotion for the advise! I did get the flywheel bolts but the Sachs Flywheel came with them... I'll probably return them after the job is done. I will change the transmission fluid and probably just collect and reuse the antifreeze, as I just changed it last year when I installed a new thermostat. I got the Bentley Manual so I think I'm covered on the Torq Specs and other details. What I find interesting is the different methods used to do the job. I believe I will follow the Pelican parts method and utilize the Bentley manual as a secondary source of knowledge.

I plan to take lots of pictures and post a write up on my experience, focusing on if this is a job an average person can do and what are some of the pitfalls you can make along the way. I believe there are lots of "how to" write ups, and I don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Thank you for your support! We start on Monday... It should be an interesting adventure. This thread may become busy as I might be send questions to the community if we get stuck.

Aloha,

 

First, big mahalo for the support and advice this forum has given me and others like me, to solve our Mini and not so Mini problems!

The new clutch is in and the Mini drives great.

It took two people and approximately16 hours to complete the job. There are a lot of great tutorials out on the web to help and would like to give a big shout out for pelican parts for their helpful and detailed write ups.

Impression after completing my biggest automotive project to date...

1. This is a big job and I would only recommend doing it yourself if you have good mechanical aptitude and you enjoy the challenges of things not working out as easily as the manual or tutorial suggests.

2. There are several point in this repair that it would be easier to having friend to help you out. Like, dropping the sub frame, and removing and reinstalling the transmision.

3. I have a 2011 Mini, so we had to go "off script" from the online tutorials to move forward. Sometimes it was a little thing, other times it was kind of big...I purchased the Bentley Manual, it was helpful while we were off script.

Things we did:

1. Supported the front clip from the ceiling garage door track rails.
2. Used a 4x4 post and 2 x 4 lumber to build a structure to support the engine. We called it our home made BMW special tool.
3. Used a regular automotive jack to drop and lift the transmission. This was only possible because we had two people. A transmission jack is probably a must have with one person.

Things we found:

We are not 100% sure, but when we pulled the old clutch pressure plate off the clutch disk seem to be installed the wrong way from the factory. Wish I took a picture of it before we pulled it out.

The clutch was completely worn down to the rivets that hold the clutch friction material to the clutch disk. The clutch pressure plate had groves were the rivets were. And the fly wheel showed cracking, pitting, and heat discoloration.

Things we learned:

The instruction on the torque settings for the flywheel was confusing in the Bentley Manual. The manual listed the torque settings as Stage 1, Stage 2, and Stage 3. We interpreted the instructions as torque settings for a Stage one performance clutches... Not as, first torque to this setting then go around and torque to the second setting, finally torque one more time by turning the bolt 90deg from the second setting...

When installing the transmission, it is probably best to drop the engine a little bit (an inch on the drivers side) so it is easier to get past the frame.

Instructions in Bentley Manual and a slip of paper in the Mini clutch kit box discuss using a special tool to load the self adjusting clutch plate. This was confusing, and not necessary. The new Mini clutch plate is already preloaded.

Buy transmission fluid from your online vendor, as your local Mini/BMW dealer will have it in stock at $60 / quart...

Remember to connect everything back together...

We forgot to connect one of the ECU plugs, car didn't start initially. Then we discovered we forgot to tighten the intercooler rubber hose to the engine air intake. This gave us CEL for air mass sensor and engine rich code...

Conclusion:

I'm glad the repair is complete. If I had to do it again, it would probably take 10 hours or less. I'm also happy we were able to borrow a quick jack ranger. I will consider purchasing one, as I found having the car on the quick jack to be safer and more convenient. I probably saved $3000 by doing it myself (2 repair quotes at $5k, spent $1400 in parts and supplies). I would not have done this by myself as a first timer, so having a friend to help you out was critically important to my confidence and the successful completion of the repair.

Aloha,

 

Our front clip support tool...





Subframe:






Our engine support tool...








Looking down at transmission before removal...





Bottom support: